eazy

My car was running fine 3 days ago, but for the past few days I can't get it to start. I have 12.7 volts at the battery, and that drops to around 10 when I try and turn it. The starter is turning, and it tries to turn over a little. It just won't quite go. I tried it with a jumper box, and with another vehicle. With the air cleaner off I could see that the carb is getting fuel. I am not quite sure what else it could be?

Possibly the starter isn't engaging?

Could it be distributor related?

oldcutlass

Is the starter cranking the motor and it just won't fire?

eazy

Its only cranking the motor intermittently. Every couple seconds the fan will spin around a couple times.

eazy

I'm wondering if my fuel pump might be all gunked up from all these hardstarts in the cold. It's been below freezing here pretty much since January and I've been starting it at least every 3 days.

oldcutlass

First I would get the battery checked and charged. Then remove and clean the battery terminals really good. Batteries tend to die on either extremely cold or hit days. If it has a bad cell it will load down whatever source your using to aid in jump starting. Also if you didn't let it run very long after each of those starts it's very low.

Macadoo

Still not quite sure what you mean. Is the motor turning around while cranking like rum rum rum rum rum rum. Or more like rum..............rum.................rum.........
If it's the latter and you're getting the same cold we are I would say it's the battery. if it's the former, quicker turn over, then maybe frozen gas line. Try some starting fluid (ether) in the carb before cranking. But be careful not to wash the cylinders of oil. My truck did the same thing on one of those -15 degree nights and it took a new battery AND starting fluid.

eazy

I went down that road less than a month ago. New battery and new negative connection. I cleaned both of them good and greased them up. The old battery was only 4 months old and was real low on CSA's, so I am aware that there is a short somewhere. From here I don't really know where to go. I was thinking about pulling my starter and my alternator and getting both of them rebuilt, and also upgrading to a larger power cable. I am just unsure if that is going to completely solve my problem.

eazy

it goes rum rum rum rum real fast like. The carb kinda mists a little fuel, I think the choke has been stuck open for like 3 days now too.

eazy

New fuel lines probably wouldn't hurt either.

Macadoo

That choke needs to be closed in this cold or it definitely won't start.

Macadoo

If it's turning over nice and quick, you're looking for complicated problems when it might be something simple. I do the same thing. Start with the easy stuff. Get that choke closed and then try again.

eazy

Well to be more clear I believe the starter is going rum rum rum rum real fast and high pitch, and the motor is going rum.........rum.........rum............brum.

I've been cranking the thing to death so i kinda have a feeling the starter isn't engaging, or the gears are worn.

eazy

How do I get the choke to close? It is mechanical.

Macadoo

Ah, that's a horse of a different color. I'm no expert on starters but I believe there is something called the bendix spring (sp?). The starter gear slides up and down a shaft to engage and disengage. Sounds like it's not staying put. Do a search on here about the bendix.

As for the choke; you say mechanical. Do you have handle in the cab that you pull to engage it (old school style)? Or do you mean it's temperature activated? I'm guessing it's temperature activated. There's a bi-metal coil spring that expands and contracts depending on temp, opening and closing the choke. It might be out of adjustment or it might be binding somewhere.

Macadoo

There should be a black plastic cap over the coil spring that can be loosened and turned to adjust the choke. You might try that and see if it closes. But mark it first so you can get it back to the original position.

eazy

I looked at a few youtube videos on chevy starters to familiarize myself with them.

The choke is activated through the accelerator pedal, and then I am guessing it has a bimetal disk. I have to tap the pedal to take it off of choke.

1970cs

There are a few vids on bench testing the starter! Try this to see if the bendix gear is throwing out.

Pat

Octania

Are you aware that the starter system is pretty much unrelated to the ignition system, which is separate from the fuel system which operates independently of the choke portion of the carb?

If it's not even CRANKING at normal speed, and the battery is providing only 10 volts, that's probably the first thing to look into. From the description, it'd seem your starter or the electrical feed to it [battery and cables/ connections] are suspect.

Can you maybe post a video of what it is doing? That would sure help in over-the-net diagnosis.

Macadoo

I'm pretty sure you're confusing the choke with the fast idle circuit. You "kick it" to take it off of fast idle. The choke operates independent of that, depending on temperature only.

eazy

I am aware that the fuel, starting, and ignition systems are all separate. I am also aware the the choke is a function of its own and that when the fins close with the choke on, correct? Posted is a pic of where the throttle is positioned. I was not aware of the choke being separate from the high idle switch. I will see what I can do about that video.20140302_193427_zpsac9ab533.jpg

MDchanic

Without more information, I can't really add anything to what Mac has suggested.

I'm still not 100% clear on whether the starter is actually turning all the time that the key is turned, and whether the engine is actually turning the whole time that the starter is turning.
This information is vital before going further.

If the choke isn't closing, then, yeah, the engine won't start when it's cold, no matter how many batteries you kill cranking it. We need to be very clear on how that is working as well.

Dumb question #1: You are pressing the gas pedal to the floor at least once before starting, to set the choke, right?

- Eric

edit: gee, I must be typing slowly - about half a dozen posts since the one I last saw...

76olds

Hey guys should he try to put a screwdriver inside the butterfly to open it a crack then jumping the starter with another screw driver to see if it starts, If no go then look into fuel issues? What do you think Mac> Eric> Eric .?

MDchanic

No, only because it sounds like his choke is open all the time, rather than closed all the time, which would be a different story.

I'm still not completely sure what's going on, though.

- Eric

eazy

I just made a quick video of me trying to start it with the choke on. I also tried starting it with the choke off before that. Let me get this video on youtube and see what you think.

oldcutlass

I think its flooded, and it will not start because the plugs are wet and its very cold. Compounded by a weak battery. What he might try is a bit of starting fluid.

eazy

I agree that it is flooded, but wouldn't allowing it to sit overnight then jumpstarting it get it to fire up?

Anyways here's the video of me flooding the carb, but I still think my starter sounds different than it used to.

eazy

You can't see in the video, but the fan is spinning slowly the whole time.

eazy

All I have to spray in the carb is throttle body cleaner. Should I try that with the choke off and see if it will go?

76olds

I don't know guys but I'm thinking sticking a screwdriver to open that butterfly a bit may help ????

76olds

Stand back if it fires or you'll loose your eyebrows and hair lol.

eazy

I'm still a little confused if I should have the choke open or closed. I got it to turn off so that's under control.

Also, if i flooded it...leaving it sit overnight should dry it out correct?

MDchanic

Not necessarily - you may need to remove and clean the plugs first. Depends how bad it is.



No. Waste of energy.


I couldn't see whether the choke was completely closed in that video - it should be if it's cold out, and if it's not, that could be part of your problem.

I have to say that I didn't at all like the way your starter sounded in that video.
It was too short, and too hard to see clearly, to say anything definitive, but I wonder about your pinion gear to flexplate spacing and about your starter bushings and sprag clutch (starter drive).

I also got the sense that the speed of the starter was rising and falling (again, it was a bit short for me to get the full effect), like:
WIWIWIWIw-i-w-i-w-i-w-i-w-i-w-i-WIWIWIWIWI-w-i-w-i-w-i-w-i-w-iw-i...

If that's the case, then the question arises: Has your timing chain slipped a tooth?

- Eric

oldcutlass

Not throttle body cleaner, you need some starting fluid. Also hold gas pedal all the way to the floor when cranking, do not pump the gas.

Macadoo

That choke looks closed to me. If it's flooded, try pushing the gas pedal all the way to the floor while cranking. That might clear the excess fuel.
I don't hear the starter running without the engine turning so it's engaging...in the video anyway.
76 might be right, a little choke crack might help. But it's turning over awful slow.

eazy

The starter does go in and out like you were describing. Everyone including myself has been blaming it on the battery, but I replaced that about a month ago, and I have tried it with both a jumper box and another vehicle. Are timing issues on these engines hard to fix?

Macadoo

You crack me up Eric! Way better than than my rum rum rum.

76olds

I would try opening the butterfly about 3/16 with a srew driver, don't pump the fuel , and giver for about 25 sec, If no go Eric likely nailed it with a timing chain deal or spun dizzy gear. Charge that battery a bit and Give 'r' a shot.

eazy

So are you guys thinking the engine turning slow is related to timing?

Macadoo

This makes absolutely no sense, so I'd try it
It used to work on an old Cheby truck I had, even when this cold.

I agree with MD Eric, that starter sounds funky.

MDchanic

Impossible. I'll just come by and take that rotten wreck off your hands - I'm sure you'll be happier.


If your timing chain has slipped, you've got to pull the accessories, the vibration damper, the water pump, and the timing cover to replace it.
Also, on a '70 high compression 350, I had four valves bent that way.

If this begins to become a possibility (we haven't excluded the simpler stuff yet), then the easiest way to tell is to check the ignition timing, as it will have slipped by a set amount (I forget the exact amount, but I can figure it out again) if it slipped a tooth.

- Eric