brown7373

Sounds like a weak battery to me. Sometimes new batteries are defective. You also mention there was a short somewhere, which could be draining a new battery. Charge the battery to full charge and recheck ALL connections from the battery to ground and to the starter. Make sure the battery negative is disconnected before you put a wrench on the starter connections or you could cause a major short and weld your wrench to the starter.


Confirm that the carb accelerator pump gives a shot of fuel when you open the throttle by looking down the carb throat with the engine off (obviously because it won't start). And never pump the accelerator while you crank it. That is never a way to start an engine. All it does is dump excess fuel into the engine and flood it and make it harder to start.


Read the owners manual on starting. It says, with a cold engine, push accelerator to the floor once and turn the key. If it fails to start, repeat. It never says to pump the pedal. If you are cranking, getting fuel and spark, it should fire. If all that fails, you may have a more serious problem, but until you confirm that those basics are correct, you are wasting your time.

White_Knuckles

You may need an in-line fuel filter? The factory carb has one internally behind the fuel inlet filter housing where the new carb would not.

If it feels sluggish now, the timing may be set too retarded? Forget the timing light readings for now. Here's a method used to range in - road test style. Loosen the distributor hold-down bracket slightly so there's resistance but the dist. rotates. Now perform a road test slightly turning it in 1/4 inch increments counter clockwise (advancing). If you notice the idle speed raise, don't worry it will be adjusted at the carb later. The engine will respond to slight increments and may feel more peppy with each movement. But you need to hit max vac advance (wide open throttle) to make sure you don't advance it too far.

So, after adjusting let's say 1/4", open up the throttle under load (safely maybe use first gear), feel and listen how the car responds now to full advance and throttle? A small turn or two should wake her up. But listen for ping or detonation which sounds like rattling when your foot is in it. If you hear pinging, you're over advanced. Rotate the dist. back clockwise (retarding) in slight increments to where the ping just goes away. Tighten the bracket and you're done.

Quarter-half inch movement is a lot so don't go crazy. You can mark an index where you started (the shop setting) on the dist. base with chalk or a sharpie before you move it. This road method is used by many where setting the initial timing with a light is considered a baseline starting point.

Edit: shut the car off between dist. adj. It can be a shocking experience not doing that. (ask me how I know)

Macadoo

So Knuckles, to be clear, it's possible to leave the hold down a bit loose while you test drive? That would certainly make things easier. And I sure do wish you had a photo gallery of that Holiday

billmerbach

Yes mac idk how long I've ran our car without it tightened just moves a little bit over time nothing a little twist can't fix

76olds

Being that they just put a new chain in the car and he now has the edelbrock on it which I believe is a 600 cfm, I figure he has to get the throttle cable adjusted properly first for WOT, figure out the vacuum leak, set the carb up adjust the curb idle, then tweak the timing if need be.

eazy

You're pretty spot on with what I have going on. The carb is a 650cfm, I believe it is a 1406. I am still reading all the literature on the carb. The electric choke still needs to be hooked up. I need to get my throttle cable adjusted, and I agree I need to confirm their is no vaccum leak. The carb must be properly tuned, then I may still need to advance the timing slightly. I have read in the Edelbrock Owners Manual that improper transition from the Idle System to the Primary Main System may cause the vehicle to "bog" or "flat spot."

76olds

1406= 600 cfm , the carb should run decent rite out of the box on a stock engine, Wiring up your electric choke will defiantly help. Just don't crank your idle mixture screws in too tight if your playing with them the should be pre-set out 2 turns, you may find a difference going out 1/4 turn at a time but no more then 3 turns each they should be good thou, just need to set your curb Idle screw once you get your throttle cable lengthened. If you have all the vac leaks closed off and its still bogging of flat spotting, advance your timing until it pings then back it off a little if you don't have a timing light .Let us know how your making out.
Cheers Eric

White_Knuckles

^^ Yes, on the carb, a 600 CFM is perfect. Leave it alone. Other than the idle speed and idle mix adj. (well described above) - no touchy. These are amazing out of the box where mid-range metering adjustment for "flat spots" or "lag" is not your problem. I think your timing is retarded where it's really easy to street verify. That new carb should make that baby scoot with minor, external adjustments.

eazy

The '71 now has an oil light. It started off flashing slightly when I came to a stop in Drive. After the weekend it became more consistent until I had to start popping it into Neutral and keeping it revved up. I don't have a tach. I do have an electric oil psi gauge that I will be hooking up.

My guess is that I'm loosing oil psi at low RPM's. Does this sound like a bad Oil Pump?

MDchanic

It could be a bad lots of things, or everything, including a bad sender.

You need to put the gauge on it and see what your pressure really is.

What weight oil are you using?

- Eric

eazy

Valvoline VR1 10w-30

MDchanic

So the problem isn't your oil (unless your fuel pump diaphragm is leaking).

- Eric

oldcutlass

I would get an aftermarket oil pressure gauge hooked up asap and not drive it until you verify pressure.

coppercutlass

Fwiw I have a 91 k5 blazer. With 10 w30 oil psi is **** poor. I think like 15 to 10 psi at idle and 25 to 30 running hot. Then I bumped it to 10 w40 and it was better but not by much. The diesel 15w40 rotella seems to do the trick it idles now around 30 psi at idle and 50 psi hot. Just my experience. This blazer has the original 350 chevy with 165k . Which although those psi. Numbers ain't really that bad I still try to keep it up as high as I can. Put a mech. Gauge as mentioned and rule the unit out . Make sure your oil is not getting washed out with fuel asmentioned and if all that checks out then try an oil aditive like lucas to thicken it up and if the oil psi goes up its just a tired old engine.

eazy

I'll get that gauge on there this weekend and report back.

eazy

I installed my oil PSI gauge yesterday. When I first started my car the pressure was sitting right above 50psi. When I started driving my pressure quickly dropped to around 20psi. After about 5 minutes of driving my pressure went down to 0. It will go back up to around 20psi under hard acceleration.

Thoughts?

oldcutlass

If your gauge is accurate the engine is going to be toast soon. Pull the valve covers and see if when it drops to 0 you have oil flow over the rockers. It may have a bunch of plastic bits from the timing set clogging the oil pickup screen or you might get away with installing a new oil pump.


Sorry to say, it may be time to start thinking of a rebuild or replacement.

eazy

I have been considering a rebuild/performance build. When the motor goes is when I'll start the process. Bottom line is I graduate May, 16th, and my goal is to drive the car 100 miles back home either on or before that time. Otherwise, it will have to be towed from wherever it brakes down. My only other option is renting a U-HAUL and towing it myself in order to eliminate the risk of it breaking down.

oldcutlass

Congrats on graduating! I'd probably chance it by throwing a can (bottle)of stp in there. If it will make some oil pressure, take the 2 hour trip if it's mostly hwy and not much idling. Have someone follow you.

Macadoo

This is what my pickup screen looked like but my oil light wasn't coming on. I had ZERO teeth on my gear when I pulled it. I would think getting that oil pan off without pulling the engine would be difficult to say the least.
Eazy, I'd never taken an engine apart like this since high school so if I can do it....... But I do have a lot of tools.
Congrats on the degree!

[IMG][/IMG]

MDchanic

No problem driving this engine, as long as you keep the revs up and you don't expect it to last.

I would recommend replacing the oil with 20W50, and maybe adding that can of STP as well, then pack her up and drive her home.
Make a conscious effort to keep the revs up while idling (shift to Neutral and give it enough gas to get a few psi up), and you should be just fine.
Frankly the car could go several thousand more miles like that. Or not.

I would try to avoid blowing it up, though, as you cannot predict the failure mode, and if it puts a rod through the block, you'll have greater parts needs than you would if you pull it apart while it's just worn out.

How many miles are on it anyway? You can't predict the wear - you may find that the cylinders look acceptable and just the bearing shells and/or oil pump are shot.

- Eric

White_Knuckles

Okay, back to that new gauge. Would that be an electric sender or mechanical? Thing is, you should hear excessive valve train rattling at 0 PSI. I mean scary sounds like a popcorn popper hiding under the hood. Even a new gauge could be tricking you?

MDchanic

Very true.

In fact, back in high school, I knew that if I took a turn fast or hit the brakes hard, and I heard the valves clatter, it was time to open up the trunk and pour in another quart.

- Eric

eazy

My understanding is that the sending unit converts the active oil psi into an electromagnetic signal that is transferred to the gauge. I have it wired according to the instruction sheet. It is an Equus electric oil psi gauge.

Octania

For trouble conditions, I prefer a mechanical Bourdon Tube type pressure gage, connected to the pressure port with [typically 1/16" plastic] tubing. Rarely does this simple mechanical device lie or fail.

MDchanic

I certainly agree, but, judging by his descriprion of the gauge's behavior:
it seems to me as though the gauge is working reasonably well.

Could he actually have 5psi instead of 0? Sure, but we know he doesn't have -3.

- Eric

Octania

Well, we can assume that pretty safely, but we do not KNOW that.

White_Knuckles

That's what I'm looking for. Electric senders change resistance value as the pressure moves an internal "plunger" up and down. A defective sender may have a "flat spot" where when it lands in a certain area, there is no resistance or is "open" reading 0 PSI. Equus (Chinese) are popular consumer gauges but even a new sender may be suspect? This low reading however is consistant with your idiot-light flickering.

So again, are you hearing rattling or ticking when the gauge indicates zero at idle? If not, you have some pressure present. It's normal to have higher pressure on cold start where it will drop at operating temp. Like others suggest, it may actually have 3-5 lbs present not 0. The gauge simply doesn't register the low reading. To test this theory, thicken the oil changing it out to straight-weight 40. You may be safe to limp it along until you can swap the engine or check out the pump/pick-up. A tired engine should be using oil and puffing smoke clouds.

eazy

It is mileage exempt because it has an R title. When I bought the car the odometer wasn't working. I fixed that right away, and have put almost 10,000 miles on it this year. It currently reads 50,000; I don't know if it ever turned over.

I only drove it briefly, but I didn't notice any rattling under the hood that I would consider alarming. When the engine is warm and I come to a stop in drive the oil dummy light comes on and the engine seems to be struggling slightly to stay alive. As soon as I release the brake the oil light turns off.

One piece of information I have left out: It appears that some dumb *** jacked up the car right under the oil pan. The pan is dented inwards pretty bad. It's been like that since I have owned it. I'll post a picture of it in the next half hour.

What is a normal range of operating temperatures I should be looking for?

eazy

Every time I have checked my oil it is at the perfect level and looks nice and light brown. It's probably safe to say I don't burn oil.

MDchanic

195° is warmed up.

Without any valve clatter at an indicated 0psi, I'd agree you should consider getting a mechanical gauge, just to be sure.
No pressure should plenty of noise.

- Eric

69 Ragtop

Advance Auto Parts sells a reasonably reliable mechanical oil gauge for about $16. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...hedFrom=header

RROLDSX

Two theories others can disprove but I curious how hot your engine is getting. If it is too hot the oil thins a the oil pressure can drop dramatically. Also, from what I've read on this site and other books, plugged oil galleries can cause oil to accumulate in the upper engine components and reduce the quantity of oil in the pan to pump back through the engine.

Just some thoughts since I wondered why the pressure was good at start up.

MDchanic

Yes, but only at high RPM. He loses pressure at low RPM.


Because the oil was cold.

- Eric

76olds

As Eric mentioned above I would put some 20w50 oil in it, put the windows down and crank the defrost on hot to keep your engine cooler, probably wouldn't hurt to put a 160 thermostat in it as well and take it easy with it for a while.

Leadfoot

Interesting thread, and Eazy, I'm now wondering if you made it home OK. You were given a lot of great advice, most of it right on the money in my book.
I was going to suggest that you raise the idle speed on that new carb by a few hundred rpm for your drive home to help keep the oil pressure up a bit, but that horse has probably already left the barn.
Let us know how things stand now.

69 Ragtop

Wow. Better buy it soon. It's up to $18 now. I wonder why they don't talk about inflation in the news like they did in the late '70s...

Miles71

Hi Easy:
Any new updates on your oil issues?
Congratulations on graduation.
My engine is same as yours; the only real difference is the Mileages.
My engine has only 25k and the compression is still great (150 range).

Equis Gauge:
I think have the same gauge; it’s electric with two outputs, Dummy light and Meter.
My system appears to be working normal.
The Oil light comes on until the engine starts and then Needle jumps to 50 psi.

With a Hot Engine, on a warm day 75-85f, I will see the following.
Idle 650-700 RPM, Drive, Foot on break, Automatic, Oil pressure 20-25 PSI.
Over 1000 RPM (car moving), I’ll see 50 PSI.

Engine Temperatures (stock 3 core radiator, with AC clutch fan, shroud).
AC -Off, at 65 MPH, Air temperature 80F, Thermostat 180F, Engine temp 185-195F.
AC- On, the rest same, Engine Temp 190-200F
I know that my clutch fan is slipping and will be replaced someday.

Crushed Oil pan:
The dent could be blocking oil flow to the intake.
When you replace your timing gears a few months back, did you notice if there were any Nylon teeth missing?
Did the shop drop the pan and check the oil intake?

You can temporarily boost your Oil pressure by switching to straight 50 weight oil.

White_Knuckles

Yikes! I missed this pan deal. Yeah, I'd be looking at pickup restriction on that baby soon.

eazy

Well after abandoning this thread for about 2 months I'm back. With the help from this forum I was able to switch to 20w-50 and put the olds home. By the end of the 3 hour drive my oil light was staying on as soon as I was off the throttle and it was near stalling out. I parked it in the driveway at my parents house where it sat until last weekend when I got in it and cranked it over for 20 seconds until it roared.

I have been searching for and located the following parts: new oil pump, rod, pickup screen, oil pan, oil pan gasket. The shop that has these parts has a used oil pan for me for $20, but he says he has to dig it out from the back and he hasn't gotten to it yet.

I plan on installing those parts and changing the oil once they are available. Since it has taken so long to get the parts I'll now be able to include new plug wires, new alternator, and horn relay. Once I get to all of that I'll then dial the carb in, get my pedal back to WOT, and make sure my timing is correct.

So back to why I'm here: I ditched the Equus electric oil psi gauge and bought a $65 AutoMeter Ultra Lite mechanical gauge. I loved it the first night I had it in. It was accurate, my oil pressure was still low, but it was a little better. 50 at startup, 20-35 when driving, 8-12 at idle. The next time I got in I slid the gauge out to inspect it and immediately noticed air in the oil line. I had just bought strait 50 oil and a bottle of lukus to put in. I went to my shop, pulled the oil filter, blew nitrogen thru the pump inlet, changed the oil, and the car felt better, but still had air in the gauge line (yes I know the oil change was unrelated). Today I pulled the gauge off, re-taped and doped my connection, bled the line, re installed the gauge, ran the engine and all seemed great, no air in the line. When I cut the engine I watched the line suck air back through the gauge. Can anyone tell me what's going on here. Please remember I am a professional plumbing, heating, and air conditioning mechanic. I know how to make a good connection, I'm not perfect though, so enlighten me.

Side note: The old teeth were pretty worn, but not missing.

Anyways thanks again for all the help, all comments considered. The good news is that this old tired engine still turns over and fires up when I want it to. Hopefully a few hundred bucks, some blood, sweat, and beers and I'll be screaming down the road.

Oh yeah and does anyone have a drivers side mirror they want to sell?