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Old March 9th, 2008, 01:16 AM   #1
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How to make my Cutlass more powerful, inexpensively!

I am looking at making my car faster without having to spend too much. I was thinking of a turbo but I am unsure what type I should get. I have the 455 engine. The previous owner installed an Edelbrock carburetor. What else can I do?

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Old March 9th, 2008, 11:28 AM   #2
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You want to keep cheap, but you want to do a turbo?

Cam, lifters, rockers, manifold package. About $1000, but a lot of bang for the buck
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Old March 9th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #3
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........ without having to spend too much ........
http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Pages/HolleyGas.htm

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Old March 11th, 2008, 10:35 PM   #4
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Very inexpensive thing to do, is make sure both the centrifugal and vacuum advance mechanisms in the distributor are functioning correctly and that the initial timing is set right for your engine.
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Old March 12th, 2008, 02:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newkid8 View Post
I am looking at making my car faster ........
........ and vacuum advance mechanisms in the distributor ........
Vacuum advance has nothing to do with power output.

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Old March 12th, 2008, 05:25 AM   #6
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Vacuum advance has nothing to do with power output.

Norm
And just to expand on that, consider that at wide open throttle, the vacuum is ZERO, which is why vac advance has nothing to do with power output (but everything to do with fuel economy). Consider that in the old days (defined as before I had any gray hair), the hottest engines used only mechanical advance.
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Old March 12th, 2008, 05:27 AM   #7
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...I was thinking of a turbo but I am unsure what type I should get. I have the 455 engine.
Read this month's Hot Rod. In the Tech Q&A pages there was a question about putting a turbo on a Chebby 327. After a lengthy discussion of what was required, HRM (to their credit) put together a realistic cost estimate.

$25,000.

Used nitrous kits can be had for $300 on craigslist.
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Old March 12th, 2008, 05:55 AM   #8
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I haven't seen but, I think, two 455 Oldsmobile engines with a turbcharger. Not too common.
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Old March 12th, 2008, 08:08 AM   #9
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I haven't seen but, I think, two 455 Oldsmobile engines with a turbcharger. Not too common.
How about this one:
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Old March 13th, 2008, 08:48 AM   #10
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There is a longtime running debate over vacuum advances and what they do. I agree that on race engines it is seldom used. Not to step on anyone's toes, but I respectfully disagree with broad statements like vacuum advance has nothing to do with power output. Rather I would say that it depends on what type of power you are talking about. Vacuum advance has a lot do do with part throttle power, good driveability, throttle response, and fuel economy on a street driven vehicle. If you are running near redline most of the time, then it is not necessary, centrifugal only is sufficient. Also, if the source to the advance is ported vacuum and not manifold vacuum, then the supply to the advance will not be zero under a load. This article may be of interest:
http://65corvette.nonethewiser.net/t...um_advance.pdf
It is mainly aimed at corvette owners, but good reading.
This is aimed at Pontiac owners, but also good info:
http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...uum_curve.html

I brought this topic up because the last word of the thread opener was inexpensively, and these 2 important distributor components are often overlooked. Centrifugal advances get stuck, lose weights and are easily repaired, or modified for more or quicker advance curves. Vacuum pots blow diaphrams and stop functioning entirely. Many late 60's and early 70's Olds engines had devices to limit the vacuum advance for reduced NOX emissions, ie transmission controlled spark advance and if they are malfunctioning, power output will be down and fuel economy will suffer. If you are driving a hot rod, chances are you have already bypassed these devices, but if you are driving a stocker you may want to investigate whether they are working correctly given that gas is hovering at 4.00/gallon.

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Old March 13th, 2008, 08:56 AM   #11
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How about this one:

Haven't seen that one, interesting.
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Old March 13th, 2008, 10:17 AM   #12
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Is that the McKee(McGee??) Can Am car?

Isn't that like a Hemi chambered, quad cammed, turbo thing-a-ma-jig?
Give us the scoop!
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Old March 13th, 2008, 10:59 AM   #13
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Is that the McKee(McGee??) Can Am car?

Isn't that like a Hemi chambered, quad cammed, turbo thing-a-ma-jig?
Give us the scoop!
Good eyes!

Yes, this is the final iteration of the CroSal McKee car, using the all-aluminum 455 Olds with twin turbos and British-made injectors that look like Webers. I especially like the air box that's made into a small wing. I actually own one of the factory experimental intake manifold castings made for this engine.
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File Type: jpg weber2.jpg (16.1 KB, 15 views)
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Old March 13th, 2008, 11:16 AM   #14
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WOW! That is an awsome engine. Don't see something like that every day.

Actually, if I wanted to get alot of horsepower for a small investment I would purchase a K&N air filter and a chrome exhaust tip.
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Old March 13th, 2008, 12:09 PM   #15
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.....and a neon lights under the frame.
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Old March 13th, 2008, 12:09 PM   #16
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...and a chrome exhaust tip.
Yeah, the larger the tip, the more HP you get!
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Old March 13th, 2008, 12:23 PM   #17
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...and stickers! lotsa stickers.


Joe...what's that dual quad set up next to your foot?
You have a mopar wedge obsession too?

and just WHERE did you come across the McKee intake?
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Old March 15th, 2008, 12:21 AM   #18
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........ There is a longtime running debate over vacuum advances and what they do ........
Different topic deserves a new thread.

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...revisited.html

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Old March 15th, 2008, 05:46 AM   #19
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Good eyes!

Yes, this is the final iteration of the CroSal McKee car, using the all-aluminum 455 Olds with twin turbos and British-made injectors that look like Webers. I especially like the air box that's made into a small wing. I actually own one of the factory experimental intake manifold castings made for this engine.
Cool, I have always wondered what my Strombecker "Olds Powered Special" slot car was based on.

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Old March 16th, 2008, 07:31 PM   #20
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WOW! That is an awsome engine. Don't see something like that every day.

Actually, if I wanted to get alot of horsepower for a small investment I would purchase a K&N air filter and a chrome exhaust tip.
Why would an air filter cause for an increase of hp? Or even chrome tips? I think you are kidding by I am still pretty new to engines.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 08:26 PM   #21
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Joe...what's that dual quad set up next to your foot?
You have a mopar wedge obsession too?

and just WHERE did you come across the McKee intake?
Look again. That's a cross ram for big block OLDS! The carb flanges are for Qjets. More pics below.

Both the cross ram and the Weber intake are Olds factory experimental pieces. I stumbled across them at swap meets in SoCal in the 1980s when I lived there. Norm will likely remember the OCIR swap meet that became the Long Beach swap meet when OCIR closed. Both manifolds (along with other factory experimental pieces) are shown in an article in the July 1969 issue of Hot Rod Magazine about experimental Olds motors. The McKee CanAm motor is on the cover of that issue.
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File Type: jpg crossram2.jpg (17.8 KB, 17 views)
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Old March 17th, 2008, 06:10 AM   #22
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That manifold is SO cool...
I'd love to show up at the track with that.
I get enough crazy looks now. I can only imagine how
they'd scratch their heads when they saw that!
-Pete
Really great stuff.
Is it an Olds part with an 'X' number?
Or an aftermarket experimental piece?
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Old March 17th, 2008, 08:52 AM   #23
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That manifold is SO cool...
I'd love to show up at the track with that.
I get enough crazy looks now. I can only imagine how
they'd scratch their heads when they saw that!
-Pete
Really great stuff.
Is it an Olds part with an 'X' number?
Or an aftermarket experimental piece?
Both the cross ram and the Weber intakes are factory pieces and have "ER-xxxxxx" numbers. I've always assumed that stood for "Engineering Research".
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Old March 17th, 2008, 09:00 AM   #24
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Is either one any good? I would think two quads would be too much carburetor for most engines. A guy on ROP has a username quadquad and was working on a four quadrajet set up, don't know if it ever came to fruition though.

Apparently it did, here is a thumbnail picture of it in a car
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Old March 17th, 2008, 10:06 AM   #25
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Quote:
username quadquad and was working on a four quadrajet set up
I feel like I JUST saw a picture of that set up somewhere...
CarDomain, Racingjunk...somewhere.

I imagine the cross-ram would require serious, sustained RPM to
be efficient. Looks like you'd need to achieve intake velocity to
get the mixture out to the corners.
Still looks fun though!
That would look so cool in a stripped '65 F-85.
It would look like the Olds version a Mopar A990!
(hint, hint)
Like, say......I don't know.....HERE!




Click the image to open in full size.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 10:25 AM   #26
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keep dreaming, I doubt he'll part with it.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 11:36 AM   #27
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Newkid, sorry. I didn't intend to make fun. You won't get HP from an air filter or exhaust tips. K&N makes a good filter but buy it because of its filtration properties, not to get HP.

If you really want HP I suggest you start with a tune up and go from there. Alot of street machines have untapped potential because the timing is off, or because the carburetor isn't set right. Ask questions and we will help.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 02:54 PM   #28
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I imagine the cross-ram would require serious, sustained RPM to be efficient. Looks like you'd need to achieve intake velocity to get the mixture out to the corners.
Still looks fun though!
That would look so cool in a stripped '65 F-85.
It would look like the Olds version a Mopar A990!
(hint, hint)
That's a pretty car. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for 65s. I owned a 65 442 convert in college and my dad bought a 65 F-85 brand new. Sport Coupe, V6, and 3-on-the-tree. I wish that car was still around.

The whole point of the cross ram is that it's tuned for a specific RPM. You may remember the Chrysler 413s with the long ram intakes and the carbs outboard of the valve covers. The later Chrysler short runner intakes (as well as this Olds intake) are designed more for operation in the 5000-6000 RPM range. As for an intake for the 65, the Algon calliope stack intake shown below is the one I plan to put on a 65 (yet another of the cars I must build before I die...). I have the long tubes for this one stored elsewhere.
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File Type: jpg fuelie2.jpg (19.8 KB, 7 views)
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Old March 17th, 2008, 06:51 PM   #29
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Aw man!
Alright, alright...that's IS a better choice for a 65.
AWB??? Straight axle???
I'd love to see that car.

-Never knew that intake was ever made either...
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Old March 17th, 2008, 07:18 PM   #30
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Newkid, sorry. I didn't intend to make fun. You won't get HP from an air filter or exhaust tips. K&N makes a good filter but buy it because of its filtration properties, not to get HP.

If you really want HP I suggest you start with a tune up and go from there. Alot of street machines have untapped potential because the timing is off, or because the carburetor isn't set right. Ask questions and we will help.
Don't worry. I am in a fraternity. I have heard worse.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #31
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Aw man!
Alright, alright...that's IS a better choice for a 65.
AWB??? Straight axle???
I'd love to see that car.

-Never knew that intake was ever made either...
Yeah, I've got exactly that picture of the 65 with AWB and straight axle with the stacks sticking up through the hood.

And, yes, now I'm just showing off...

I AM still kicking myself about the intake that got away. It was a Sharp (Sharpe?) blower manifold for a BBO, like the ones used on the Hurst Hairy Olds. This one was at Pomona also, but I just didn't have the cash then. That was also about 20 years ago.
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Old March 17th, 2008, 11:24 PM   #32
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........ Norm will likely remember the OCIR swap meet ........
Made a few Wed afternoon passes there, with my 215 Toyota and my Grey coupe, before they closed.

Didn't know they ran a swap meet.

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Old March 18th, 2008, 05:56 AM   #33
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I love that "one of a kind" stuff. It may or may not run as well or be as streetable but it sure is cool looking. I read about a fuel injection conversion for the 455 over at ROP about a year ago. Pretty neat stuff.
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Old March 18th, 2008, 06:38 AM   #34
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Quote:
I love that "one of a kind" stuff.
I know, I'm drooling over these manifolds.
Was the FI conversion on a new manifold?
I know there's a new one out that has injector bosses
molded in, could be an easy swap if you've got the cash
for a DFI or the like...
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Old March 18th, 2008, 01:13 PM   #35
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Yes, I think actually it is a new "retrofit" for the Torker. I am depending on my memory here which is notorious for being in-accurate. Go on over there and search it, I am sure that is where I saw it. Probably the same setup you are aware of, I think I recall them describing which computer form which GM car had to be used to make it work. I am not to up to date on the new stuff.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 08:07 AM   #36
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Yes, I think actually it is a new "retrofit" for the Torker. I am depending on my memory here which is notorious for being in-accurate. Go on over there and search it, I am sure that is where I saw it. Probably the same setup you are aware of, I think I recall them describing which computer form which GM car had to be used to make it work. I am not to up to date on the new stuff.
I saw a custom EFI on a 70 442 at GMs at Carlisle last summer. This setup used the bottom half of an old Offy tunnel ram with an airbox on top and a throttle body at the front of the airbox. The injector bungs were welded to the base of the manifold runners and custom fuel rails fabricated to hold them in place. The owner unfortunately didn't have a lot of info on the computer, as he had someone set it up for him. It did run very well, however.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 08:50 AM   #37
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Professional products...
Note the injector bosses...just drill & tap!
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 10:51 PM   #38
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Professional products...
Note the injector bosses...just drill & tap!
Actually, you don't even need to tap. Most injectors are press-in with an O-ring seal. The fuel rail on top bolts down to hold them in place.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 08:46 AM   #39
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I think Edelbrock makes throttle body and multi point injection systems for older cars. Of course, with a TBI system all you would have to do is bolt it directly to the intake manifold and install a couple of sensors on the car. It looks like the intake manifold pictured above would be perfect for the Edelbrock multi point injection system.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 11:13 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olds64 View Post
I think Edelbrock makes throttle body and multi point injection systems for older cars. Of course, with a TBI system all you would have to do is bolt it directly to the intake manifold and install a couple of sensors on the car. It looks like the intake manifold pictured above would be perfect for the Edelbrock multi point injection system.
Yes, Holley makes a similar "universal" unit. As for converting the FI intake, that's my plan. There are a number of companies that specialize in converting old constant-flow FI intakes to modern EFI. The trick (which is not always possible) is to mount the injectors underneath to hide them, then run the original fuel lines and dummy nozzles up top to act as a vacuum manifold. I saw this done on a early Hemi in Street Rodder a while back.
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Joe Padavano

62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the NV desert car)
62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the San Jose car)
64 Vista Cruiser
64 Jetstar 88 Conv
66 442 L-69 Conv
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30
72 442
84 Custom Cruiser
86 Caprice wagon (w/307 Olds)
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 11:13 AM
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