jbichko1970S

numbers matching block , I saw the intake, big *** balancer to boot, no ac. the duel scoop with steel reinforcement, W31 badges in location. I did not take ownership just yet. need to check vin out with dmv and the sheriff, its out of DMV. my thing is this if it rolled of the lot the vin should come back with the facts right and or who do I beat up for information to authenticate this.

oldzzy

I would start a new thread in the main general section. There are a lot of knowledgeable W-31 guys on this site.

1969w3155

The DMV will not tell you if it is a W31, the vin will not tell you, only paperwork can confirm.

nsnarsk65cutlass

Post some pictures.

joe_padavano

If you read the posts in this thread that you resurrected, you'll find that there is no way to tell from the VIN if the car is a real W-31 or not. Unless you can find a build sheet or original invoice, you cannot prove it.

rocketboy

Yep these guys aren't lying, all the vin will tell you is it's not a 442. If it's a automatic car look on the passenger side of the transmission for a round cover and it should have jo stamped on it.
Next the standard rear end for a w31 is standard 3:91 posi so check and see if it's there.
The car should have no power breaks, but front disk.
No air conditioning.
You said it had the intake.
And the balancer.
I think sport side mirrors? At least mine came with them.
No sound deadner under carpet, and while you are checking that look for a broadcast sheet, that's where I found mine.that is the only real way to prove it outside of the factory window sticker. And it still won't have the vin on it, it has the body number that's on the cowl tag at the top then I bunch of boxes with w-31 in one of them.

Dave Siltman

There have been many, many NICE cars, some even that have won some prestigious, that turned out to be bogus. Paperwork is paramount when authenticating these cars. I own one, have seen quite a few in my day, and think I know a fair amount about them. The real truth is this---with the correct (numbers, dates, patina) parts, deception is easy. Keep your eyes on your fries and do your homework.

Bens71442

This Aagean aqua 3687 70 W-31 was in Cincinatti, OH back in 2002 or 03 at the OCA Nationals. I took the second picture I'm posting.

It was a heater and radio delete car- and if you notice- did not have sport mirrors.

I spoke briefly with the owner and he said it was a special order car for a customer who resided in Florida so that's how it came to be without a heater.

I regret like hell not taking a closer detailed picture of the engine, but its interesting that it has standard rear view mirrors including a add on the passenger side.

any thoughts or anyone here own this one. Last I seen of it was early 2000's back when OCA had the Nationals meet in down town Cinci.

oldsmobiledave

Wrong mirrors on that otherwise attractive car. Am I the only person wondering why it has no sport mirrors?

Bens71442

Is it possible the sport mirrors were deleted for credit on this particular W-31?

Anyone else know of a W-machine with a "heater delete"

seen radio deletes no big deal- but heater delete on a "A" body W-machine is interesting and I can't help but wonder if that was common in southern states ie Florida?

BangScreech4-4-2

4-gear or automatic?

Hairy Olds

Mirrors were part of the W-package. Not sure they could be deleted.
In all my years playing with 70 cars I have not heard of or seen a heater delete in a Abody.

Bens71442

I sincerely wished I had snapped a picture as I'm believing I took a video of this Aagean Aqua W-31 with no heater.

My discussion with that owner I susinctly recall paper work showing no heater and no radio in that car...

I remember seeing two rubber plugs in the holes of the firewall plugging the return hose and inlet side of where the hc was to be. NO lines running from water pump to heater core... and a block off plate slightly longer than the standard radio delete plate inside that car.

Im sorry to say I wish the owner was a member here to show this unusual W-31 and the story behind it. I spoke with him and he said it was special order for the original owners use who lived in Florida in 1970.

He (the org owner) did not want radio- heater or sport mirrors on that car when he ordered it....so was the information that was spoken to me in Ohio that day pertaining to that W-31.

BlueCalais79

I was at both shows where those 2 photos above were taken, the first one was at that owner's own club, the NYC/Long Island Chapter's show at 4 Town Fireman's Center in Merrick, NY some years ago. Frankly I know I have more photos of his car and I'll look, but I myself wish I had a photo of the exhaust tails as I installed a Gardner W-31 style dual exhaust system in my 72 Cutlass S this past summer and I'm anxious to see how much of the dumps are supposed to be visible from the rear of the car. I think mine are a bit too protruding if you know what I mean. You can see them in my album.

Bens71442

Do you have pictures of the dash board of that Aagean aqua W-31?

StickW31

how many feul lines on passenger side frame rail??

pics are a must here.



STeve

orange442

^^^^What Steve said^^^^ We need detailed pics!

Diego

I've seen a Judge with its stripes deleted - backed by factory paperwork.

Ditto a Cougar Eliminator without a spoiler.

These things could happen . . . with docs.

my70dream

just a test to see if I can post !

my70dream

Hi, new to this forum, no posts in this thread for a while. I owned a '70 Cutlass S four speed car in the early '70s, the usual story, gone in a divorce. now I'm looking at a '70 Cutlass W 31 holiday coupe for sale. haven't physically seen it, the car is at the other end of the country from me. just looking at photos posted on the net. I'm no expert, but having read up here and other forums, it mostly looks good. couple of flags.

(1)-no rocket surround on trunk key hole.

(2)-no Cutlass name on bottom right of trunk lid.

(3)-no chrome trim on bottom of deck lid, or rear edges of rear fenders. my "S" had this trim, was this extra on a regular Cutlass, the car is not an F-85.

(4)-hard to tell in photos, but deck lid colour doesn't quite match, maybe a repaint ?

(5)-car has a rear deck spoiler, exhaust cut outs in bumper, and trumpets.

(6)-functional vents in the centre of dash, I don't think air was an option on W 31s, is this normal ? no compressor under hood.

the vendor says they don't have paper work to prove the cars provenance, all the right stuff, from what I can see, looks to be there, VIN # checks as Lansing build. the car is priced what they say is accordingly.

there is a saying in the classic car world "be afraid, very afraid" !

I know a lot of questions, but any feedback would be welcome.

thanks, Mike

orange442

No a/c ever on a W-31so NOT a W-31! Post pics.

Diego

Wasn't there some kind of ventilation option that used the same dash as AC cars?

orange442

Yes, non a/c cars without wing windows got the vent dash but only had vents on the sides and a block off in the center. Called ASTRO Ventilation I believe.

joe_padavano

First, W-31s did NOT get the cutout bumper and trumpets from the factory. The only SBO car to EVER get a cutout bumper was the Rallye 350.

Second, the rear wing was an available factory option. Of course, repros have been available for decades also.

Third, the dash vents were only functional on the Holiday Coupe models, not the Sport Coupes. The post cars got a different dash pad with no vent cutouts at all. Also, non-A/C cars got a dummy plate in the center vent cutout location, not a real vent. Of course, the pad may have been replaced. What's on the firewall under the hood? Note that even the outboard vents were different on A/C and non-A/C cars.

The car has obviously been apart and had pieces replaced. That neither proves nor disproves it as a real W-31. Unfortunately, you'll be hard pressed to fully prove any W-31 is real. Look for subtle indicators like the unique fuel line routing on the frame rail. Also, a numbers-matching JO TH350 would definitely seal the deal.

my70dream

thanks for the replies to my questions, I thought this would be the place to get informed answers. here is a link to the car I'm talking about.

http://classiccars.com/listings/view...ey-idaho-83333


Mike (my70dream) in Canada

joe_padavano

The dash center vent is incorrect for a non-A/C car, but the side vents are correct, so apparently the dash has been out and monkeyed with. It is an AT car, so again, check the trans code if it is a numbers-matching trans. To be honest, the price seems to be quite reasonable for an undocumented car with some questions. The worn tune-up sticker is original, but you don't know if that top plate is original to this car or not. And as noted before, the bumper and trumpets are not correct for a W-31. It would also be interesting to find out what rear axle is in this.

orange442

If it is missing the W-31 specific balancer, the JO trans, and does not have a TO or TM code rear then just a nice Cutlass. Also look at climate control panel to see if it is for heat only or A/C and heat. Have seen a few changed from A/C to heat only but they left the original A/C control panel in the dash.

joe_padavano

The pictures of both the interior and underhood clearly show that it is a manual brake, heater-only car. The only "A/C" part on the car is the incorrect center vent on the dash pad. This is a non-issue.

oldsmobiledave

If this were true then all W-45 automatic trans cars would have a JO code trans and this is not the case.

joe_padavano

Unfortunately, the factory Parts Book takes some terminology shortcuts that add confusion. We know that the JO and OW transmissions were only used on the W-31 and W-30/W-32 cars and not on lesser cars with W-25. In many cases, the parts book uses "350 O.A.I." to mean W-31 and 400 (or 455) O.A.I. to mean W-30. Interestingly, the transmission assembly listing for the 1970 W-32 is called "4200 T.H. 400 with Perf Engine".

From the Jan 1972 Parts Book - note the first two listings:

oldsmobiledave

Good info Joe but you have a typo there I think.


You wrote 1972 W-32 & must mean 1972 W-30.

joe_padavano

DOH. I meant 1970. I was thinking the 1972 Parts Book.

shiftbyear

are there any pictures or references of the unique w-31 fuel line routing? good post

JC442

Joe, just curious which picture are you referring to? Bottom of page 103? And how can you tell it’s a fake 442?… I don’t see 442 and W-31 badging on any vehicle in
the pictures, maybe it’s my old eyes lol. There’s also an error on page 102 where it states W- 30’s came with a 455 360 hp engine… Should be 370 hp

joe_padavano

I have a very early printing of the book. Perhaps the photo has been deleted from newer printings. I'll have to go dig my copy out. There's a photo of a car with "442" and "W31" emblems.

JC442

Right after I sent the message I flipped the page and it’s at the bottom left on page 104 it’s a close-up of a 442 & a W-31 emblem. Didn’t need my glasses for this picture!