Cooling problem?
March 10th, 2017, 11:21 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5
Cooling problem?
Im here on my fathers behalf as he asked me about a cooling problem that he couldnt figure out,He has a 1969 cutlass with a 350 and recently he replaced the water pump and from what he told me he got a 2" outlet pump and people are telling him He needs a 1.5" or 1.75" "I forget" due to not having AC.
Well the problem he seems to be having is not while driving but while idling.
The temps will rise up,coolant will shoot into the overflow and so on. Im fairly certain he's running a 190 degree stat. Some people told him maybe he got a bum stat "so he is going to replace that as it's cheap and easy" Others said it's because he has the 2" pump and no AC. Kinda makes sense when I think about it,but is a quarter inch going to make that much of a difference?
I know in the past he helped me get my new engine going in my 55' Chevy "sorry guys!" and we had a debate about strait antifreeze and what I used 50/50 coolant. He pretty much called BS on 50/50 being better and he thought strait coolant was better. I dont know,I thought I read anitfreeze needed water to be all it could be? Maybe this is playing a part in his problem,I have other problems but not a cooling problem
Well let me know what you think,Or if you need any other info to help solve the problem,He doesnt do the computer thing so I will check in for answers or to give more info if needed....Thanks for the help!
Well the problem he seems to be having is not while driving but while idling.
The temps will rise up,coolant will shoot into the overflow and so on. Im fairly certain he's running a 190 degree stat. Some people told him maybe he got a bum stat "so he is going to replace that as it's cheap and easy" Others said it's because he has the 2" pump and no AC. Kinda makes sense when I think about it,but is a quarter inch going to make that much of a difference?
I know in the past he helped me get my new engine going in my 55' Chevy "sorry guys!" and we had a debate about strait antifreeze and what I used 50/50 coolant. He pretty much called BS on 50/50 being better and he thought strait coolant was better. I dont know,I thought I read anitfreeze needed water to be all it could be? Maybe this is playing a part in his problem,I have other problems but not a cooling problem
Well let me know what you think,Or if you need any other info to help solve the problem,He doesnt do the computer thing so I will check in for answers or to give more info if needed....Thanks for the help!
March 11th, 2017, 07:17 AM
#4
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
As the others said:
Are the fan and fan clutch adequate, and is the fan blowing air? If you open the hood and rev the engine, it should blow your hair back.
If I am not mistaken, the change from 2" to 1¾" outlet was made after 1970, and applied to all engines, regardless of A/C. Even if it wasn't, it shouldn't matter anyway.
How much coolant is your father putting in? Is he filling it past the spot that says "———FILL LINE———" ?
Finally, regarding antifreeze mixtures, here is something I wrote in 2012:
WOW! People do spread some wild rumors, don't they?
The fact is that water has a higher specific heat (Cp = 1.000) than ethylene glycol [antifreeze] (Cp varies with temperature), which means that a gallon of water will accept more heat before its temperature goes up 1° than a gallon of ethylene glycol will, and will shed more heat before its temperature goes back down. This means that a given amount of water will be able to move more heat from the engine to the air than the same amount of antifreeze.
Water does boil at a lower temperature than ethylene glycol, which is one of the reasons why pure water is seldom used in automotive cooling systems: even if the coolant is not boiling out of the radiator, if the coolant is boiling in the passages right next to the combustion chambers (like when you look into a pot that is just beginning to boil and there are small bubbles forming at the bottom), then the bubbles that are forming are not transferring heat well, and heat is not being drawn away from the heads, resulting in hot spots and warpage.
Water also facilitates corrosion inside the engine, especially between dissimilar metals, such as aluminum and iron.
The additives in antifreeze are designed to work best at a 50:50 ratio with water, so that is the ratio you should use. Using more water will improve heat transfer, but decrease boiling point. Using more anitfreeze will do the opposite.
With modern ethylene glycol antifreeze, you should use distilled water instead of tap water, as tap water has contaminants, especially chlorine (if on a town water system), which combines with the antifreeze to cause corrosion.
Here are two tables showing the changing specific heat and boiling points in water / ethylene glycol solutions
(credit to: engineeringtoolbox.com):
- Eric
Are the fan and fan clutch adequate, and is the fan blowing air? If you open the hood and rev the engine, it should blow your hair back.
If I am not mistaken, the change from 2" to 1¾" outlet was made after 1970, and applied to all engines, regardless of A/C. Even if it wasn't, it shouldn't matter anyway.
How much coolant is your father putting in? Is he filling it past the spot that says "———FILL LINE———" ?
Finally, regarding antifreeze mixtures, here is something I wrote in 2012:
WOW! People do spread some wild rumors, don't they? The fact is that water has a higher specific heat (Cp = 1.000) than ethylene glycol [antifreeze] (Cp varies with temperature), which means that a gallon of water will accept more heat before its temperature goes up 1° than a gallon of ethylene glycol will, and will shed more heat before its temperature goes back down. This means that a given amount of water will be able to move more heat from the engine to the air than the same amount of antifreeze.
Water does boil at a lower temperature than ethylene glycol, which is one of the reasons why pure water is seldom used in automotive cooling systems: even if the coolant is not boiling out of the radiator, if the coolant is boiling in the passages right next to the combustion chambers (like when you look into a pot that is just beginning to boil and there are small bubbles forming at the bottom), then the bubbles that are forming are not transferring heat well, and heat is not being drawn away from the heads, resulting in hot spots and warpage.
Water also facilitates corrosion inside the engine, especially between dissimilar metals, such as aluminum and iron.
The additives in antifreeze are designed to work best at a 50:50 ratio with water, so that is the ratio you should use. Using more water will improve heat transfer, but decrease boiling point. Using more anitfreeze will do the opposite.
With modern ethylene glycol antifreeze, you should use distilled water instead of tap water, as tap water has contaminants, especially chlorine (if on a town water system), which combines with the antifreeze to cause corrosion.
Here are two tables showing the changing specific heat and boiling points in water / ethylene glycol solutions
(credit to: engineeringtoolbox.com):
Specific Heat - cp - (Btu/lb.°F)
HTML Code:
Temperature Ethylene Glycol Solution (% by volume) (°F) (°C) 25% 30% 40% 50% 60% 65% 100% -40° -40° -- -- -- -- 0.68 0.703 -- 0° -18° -- -- 0.83 0.78 0.723 0.7 0.54 40° 4° 0.913 0.89 0.845 0.795 0.748 0.721 0.562 80° 27° 0.921 0.902 0.86 0.815 0.768 0.743 0.59 120° 49° 0.933 0.915 0.875 0.832 0.788 0.765 0.612 160° 71° 0.94 0.925 0.89 0.85 0.81 0.786 0.64 200° 93° 0.953 0.936 0.905 0.865 0.83 0.807 0.66 240° 116° -- -- -- -- -- 0.828 0.689 280° 138° -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.71
Boiling Point at Sea Level
HTML Code:
Ethylene Glycol Solution (% by volume) 0% 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90% 100% Temperature (°F) 212° 214° 216° 220° 220° 225° 232° 245° 260° 288° 386° (°C) 100° 101° 102° 104° 104° 107° 111° 118° 127° 142° 197°
Boiling Point at 15psi
HTML Code:
Ethylene Glycol Solution (% by volume) 0% 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90% 100% Temperature (°F) 248° 250° 252° 255° 255° 261° 270° 284° 302° 331° 444° (°C) 120° 121° 122° 124° 124° 127° 132° 140° 150° 166° 229°
- Eric
March 11th, 2017, 10:44 AM
#5
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 168
I've learned from my time working as a water filtration tech that this city doesn't chlorinate its water supply (else we would've had to add carbon pre-filters to every system, as RO filter membranes don't play well with chlorine), but we do have extremely hard water that builds up deposits on household fixtures very quickly. Maybe all the people I've seen topping off radiators with garden hoses figure hose water is different from the mineral-laden water that clogs up their shower heads.
March 11th, 2017, 10:55 AM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 13,756
If he actually had a 2" water pump and tried to put a hose for a 1.75" pump on it I do not think it would fit without a lot of cuss words.
March 11th, 2017, 11:30 AM
#7
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
- Eric
March 11th, 2017, 11:35 AM
#8
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
If you can bring enough force to bear, and it's warm enough out, it will go.
I would imagine that if it's cold out, you'd be urinating up a piece of woven fastening material.
- Eric
March 11th, 2017, 02:44 PM
#9
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 40,553
I've never used distilled water. Chlorine is not a problem, it will dissipate with heat rapidly.
Ethylene glycol really does not effect your heating as dramatically as compared to cold weather operation to prevent freezing. The help to prevent overheating is pressure, the higher the pressure the higher the boiling point.
Ethylene glycol really does not effect your heating as dramatically as compared to cold weather operation to prevent freezing. The help to prevent overheating is pressure, the higher the pressure the higher the boiling point.
March 11th, 2017, 04:42 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 13,756
Agreed. A 50/50 mix will depress the freezing point 66 degrees and will raise the boiling point 17 degrees.
freeze_boilchart-1.jpg
Coolantboilingpointchart.jpg
freeze_boilchart-1.jpg
Coolantboilingpointchart.jpg
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