Bradovich2

i have had some local oldsmobile guys in my area give me some information on my vehicle, but looking to find more. From what i have gathered, they only made 396 of these factory builds from 1964-1972.

1970 Cutlass Supreme 70k miles

factory build:
350 4 barrel
4 speed MANUAL transmission
bucket seats
12 bolt posi
dual exhaust
mag wheels

any additional help would help.. i am also thinking about selling the car, any values would help, thank you!

you can email me at: bjradovich@gmail.com

J69shep

That's a beauty. Love the 4 speed, love the 8 track player and the triple black

oldcutlass

Welcome to the site, love it. I will let those more knowledgeable than me help you on the production numbers.

joe_padavano

Pretty car. The L74 310 HP 350 4bbl was the standard engine that came in the Cutlass Supreme in 1970. Base trans was a column shifted 3spd manual, but your 4spd was an available option that is pretty rare. As you might imagine, most got the optional automatic. The styled steel wheels are SuperStock I wheels, also an available option. The rear axle may have 12 bolts on the cover, but it is not the normal Chevy 12-bolt. That is a Type O axle used under all 1970 Cutlii and unique to Oldsmobile. It shares nothing with the Chevy axle and actually only has an 8.5" ring gear held to the carrier with ten bolts. A real 12-bolt has an 8.875" ring gear held with twelve bolts.

Good luck with the car.

Bradovich2

thank you for the good info!

1969w3155

Very nice.

Diego

And from where did you gather this?

Cuz I can tell you that's wrong.

Do you have the M20 or M21?

Bradovich2

a guy i found on a forum, had a letter from oldsmosbile, his dad had the same build as mine, and he sent me a screen shot of it, and it stated on there, from oldsmobile, there were on 396 of them made from 1964-1972.. if i remember correctly, the 4 speed is the M20, ill have to check again..

Diego

The Cutlass Supreme was not available in 1964, so there's something about your characterization that's not quite right. Would be interested in knowing exactly what the letter says.

Anyway, I have numbers from the GM Heritage Center.....but only through June 1970; July is missing. Tell me the tranny and I'll give you a ballpark how many were built among all Cutlass Supremes, but for now 679 M20s were built among all Cutlass Supreme body styles through June. I'd venture to guess just over 700 were built in total.

M21 numbers are less than a third of that.

Bradovich2

where do i find out if its a "m20" or "m21"?

Diego

Build sheet, I reckon.

A rule of thumb is the rear gears will determine what tranny it has. I'd have to look at the chart to see but if it has AC, it's prob M20; lower gears would get M21, but I don't know where that cusp is.

Bradovich2

it has no ac, and no power steering..

Bradovich2

and they did not give build sheets in cars that were build in the lansing michigan plant, and this vehicle was built in lansing michigan

Diego

Can't help ya - someone else will have to guide you with this. Either way, it's a rare car.

Would be interested in the letter you have.

Bradovich2

yeah ill have to look for the screen shot... maybe it included all oldsmobile cutlass's, not just cutlass supreme's.. thank you for your input

vette442

LOVE your car. Original code 19 black?

Best info I can give you so far is from a 1982 letter from Helen Earley: 71 1970 Supreme convertibles were built with the M-21. Hardtops and M-20s can't be much more widespread than that.

Also, the 396 number is for 1971 Supremes and came from Bill VanLuven at the GM Heritage Center in 2004. Not sure if it is for hardtops and/or convertibles or if it includes M-20 and/or M-21s.

I'll see what else I can find in my V Code archives....

Terry

joe_padavano

Per the 1970 Power Teams booklet:





And yes, since A/C required a 3.23 or lower numerical axle ratio, that's an M20. The M21 required 3.42 or 3.91 and thus could not be ordered with A/C.

Diego

Thanks, Joe!

vette442

Being an e-hoarder, I found a followup email from 2007 about the 1971s.

The number thru June 1971 is actually 394 M-20s in all 4200 series Supremes (hardtops and convertibles). All of these were 350 cars. (No 455/M20s in standard Supremes until 1972's V Codes). 394 was 0.6% of production.

No M-21s were installed in 4200 series Supremes in 1971.

I wish I had exact numbers for 1970 but your car is rare.

Terry

Diego

Terry, didn't see your previous post till now.

It's interesting about the email from 2004 because, when I went to the GMHC with Kurt several years ago, they were missing all the July pages for 1967 and 70-72. By a stroke of luck, we found July '71 in the wrong place, but didn't have any luck finding the rest. I will have to ask my contact if he knows this gentleman because clearly something happened between 2004 and, let's say, 2011.

So I have the July 1971 page for M20 and it shows 396 for series 4200. And, indeed, production through June 1971 was 394.

I've never seen anything that would derive an option by body style. Helen must have been looking at something, but it's not anything I've seen at the GMHC.

Bradovich2

Thanks for all the info terry. 0.6% is exciting to hear. Glad I posted on here, I learned a lot! Thanks for all the help guys!

Diego

Please keep in mind that the 0.6% is for 1971 M20 Cutlass Supremes. That's an aggregate that can't be divided by body style - it's for total production, which was 396, plus I imagine a standard rate of error, but I could be wrong about that.

For 1970, the percentage for M20 is 0.9% and M21 is 0.3%. That's through June 1970. We currently have no way of knowing how many more were built in July. All you have is a rule of thumb but, remember, this is for all Cutlass Supremes and can't be applied by body style - to do so would be statistically incorrect.

Bradovich2

There is a little rust on the bottom two inches of the quarter panels and bottom inch of the fenders. Should I leave it original? I ordered quarter panel skins and fender patch panels. I was gonna have a guy fix them and paint the entire body (keeping the original color of course). Or is that a waste of money? Thank you

csouth

Very nice car! Personally, I would use the quarter skins as patch to fix the rusted area and keep as much original metal as possible.

vette442

I agree with that 100%!

droldsmorland

Sharp car. Definitely leave it as original as possible. Any parts removed for any reason and not reused should be stored. In other words dont turn in the cores if you need a water pump starter etc...That assumes those parts are OEM to the car. If you do the rust repair make sure its done 100% correctly. There is many body butchers out there. Or leave it alone for a professional restorer to do.
Whats the under carriage look like? Where was the car purchased? Where did it originate from?
As for pricing it would not be in 70K miles 442 4 speed territory. It all depends on condition, originality and lack of rust. Snap a bunch of detailed pics of the under carriage, inside the trunk with the mat removed, door seams and metal portions of the front and rear dash, (Also include the rust you described). If these areas are clean you have a real good car and should get the higher end of the dollar scale. Look up the going rate for a 70 Cutlass. Add 10% for 4 speed and 5% for the rare Code 19 paint. I would be comfortable comparing this to a code 19, 70 SX from a price point give or take few thou.

joe_padavano

Black wasn't a particularly rare color for 1970. You may be thinking of the 72 model year when black was a special order color on the Cutlass line.

Bradovich2

The car has been garage kept in Minnesota its entire life. Duluth Mn to be exact. I will attach some pics of the trunk and under carriage. Once again, nothing has been touched on this car. There is a little surface rust on the under side, but I think a wire brush will remove a lot of it, I just don't want to touch it until I know what the correct thing to do is.

don71

Nice old car. I like the survivor cars.

Getting them running good, leave'em be.

vette442

Did it originally have a Rallye Pack and boxed rear lower control arms/sway bar?

Bradovich2

I don't know what you are talking about when you ask about "rallye pack and boxed rear lower control arms".

droldsmorland

Does it have a rear sway bar? If so the rear lower control arms are "boxed" and not just an open C channel. Rallye pack is the gauge package...tac clock combo, oil temp gauges verses idiot lights.
This looks like a solid car so far.

droldsmorland

Here some pix of the rear boxed arms and gauge pack. You can see a boxed and unboxed control arm in the pix

Bradovich2

@droldsmorland: thank you for the pics! i will take a look tonight or tomorrow and get back to you! thanks!

1970greensupreme

I'm in the process of starting a restoration on a similar car right now