farmer52

I just posted an intro in the "newbie" forum. My late brother bought this car new in 1972 from Condrin Olds (many years out of business) in Altoona, PA. It does not have many options...brown exterior with tan full vinyl top and tan/gold cloth bench seat with fold down arm rest. It does not have A/C, tilt, cruise or any comfort options. Just a basic Supreme with 350 4bbl engine and automatic with column shifter. As I mentioned in my intro, it has been sitting for at least 35 years. Many years ago the stock wheels and hubcaps were replaced with Super Stock painted wheels from his 1976 (I believe) Supreme when he sold the car. I will try to take some pics and post. I am on the fence if I want to sell the car as is or try to get it running. If I decide to get it running and "keep" it, I would like to upgrade it with A/C, tilt, cruise, dual exhaust, Rallye cluster, and some other factory options.
My question is...How difficult are the parts to find to upgrade this car? I am not a fan of aftermarket parts but they may be my only choice considering the age of the car.

oldcutlass

Getting it running/road worthy will require some time and patience and possibly a considerable amount of money considering the time it sat. I assume you understand that end of it. For the mods you want, the A/C I would go with an aftermarket like Vintage Air. Tilt, Rallye Gauges, and other factory options are mostly bolt in and parts are easy to come by. Factory cruise sucks in my opinion and better left off. Dual exhaust can be installed by a competent muffler shop or you can buy some quality bolt on kits. Tough decision.

redoldsman

Eric is pretty much on the mark. One big factor is if the engine is frozen or not. If the engine is seized, you are talking considerable money to pull it and rebuilt it is it can be rebuilt. That would be the first thing I would check. It will require a completely new braking system. If you get it running, a good cooling system flush would be a good idea. There are several companies that make really neat combination cooling/heating systems for these cars. I still have a 72 Cutlass convertible and it is the second one I have owned. These are really good cars and require little maintenance once you have to up and going. Parts are available and they are really good looking cars. The golden brown was a very popular color in 72. My convertible was that color before it was repainted prior to my buying it. Hopefully it has been stored inside and doesn't have rust under the vinyl top. I look forward to seeing it when you get the pictures posted.

farmer52

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I am well aware of what might be needed to bring the vehicle "back to life". The car has been sitting inside covered with blankets. I know sitting on dirt the bottom will get damp and rust. Brake lines, etc. will need to be replaced. From a quick look the body appears rust free. I do not think the car was ever repainted. One of these days I will check the engine (remove plugs and try to turn over by hand). I may squirt some brake fluid in the cylinders and leave it soak for a few days before attempting to turn over the engine. But as I mentioned, I don't want to undertake a project if the "correct" replacement and upgrade parts are not available. I have several farm tractors (non John Deere) and many of the parts are "unobtainable" which makes restoration irritating in my book. If this was a Camaro or Mustang, I could build a "new" one with all the aftermarket parts available. Not knowing much about Olds, I am unaware of parts availability, especially new OE or good used "upgrades". Perhaps a "rat rod" or "barn find" sale? As a side note, the GTP sat for most of its life (3K miles in 2011). It sat next to the Cutlass and I replaced the tires (flat spotted and dry rotted), new pads and rotors, and new belts. GTP has been trouble free and now has about 16K (only driven during the summer months). Again, thanks for the comments.

farmer52

I was able to get a few pics this past week. Not very pretty but I think the body is solid. Lots of surface rust underneath. Next task is to look at the engine and soak the cylinders with PB Blaster.

Olds442redberet

Congrats!

You got to love the excitement of digging out an old Oldsmobile and discovering just what you got yourself into.

The body looks great!
The chassis looks a little scary. But it looks fairly normal for a northern car. LOL

farmer52

Will this car have a build sheet? The VIN decoder shows it was built in Lansing, MI. If it has a build sheet, where is it located? I am more familiar with MOPARS and the sheet is under the rear seat. Learning more about Olds each day.

toomanyhobbies

Under the gas tank. I am two years deep into my '72 supreme and as long as you have the dough to keep the project going, it has been nothing but fun. I am doing the same and "tweaking" it with some options I wanted.

tru-blue 442

If it is a Lansing built car, chances are the build sheet was put in the trash
at the end of the assembly line. Just the way it was at that plant.
Still a nice find and welcome to CO. Lots of info and a great bunch of guys.

farmer52

Had some free time and decided to explore the Cutlass. I was pleasantly surprised at how "clean" the interior and trunk look. Plastic parts were moldy and steering wheel cracked. A couple cloth splits at the seams from normal wear. The back seat and headliner are next to perfect. The engine compartment was not as nice. A few pics of my "exploration". BTW, the odometer shows 46,555 and last O/F change was 1980 at 43K.

DurasII

I like her. I think ya gotta at least see if you can turn over the motor before making any decisions.

farmer52

Cool rainy day here in PA and decided to "investigate". I checked the oil (at the FULL mark and looked new). I checked the coolant level in the radiator and only about 1/2 full. I was concerned about pulling the spark plugs in fear of coolant in the cylinders. I did remove the spark plugs (no issues with removal) and most had "normal" light carbon and a couple had very light rust on the electrode. I observed no evidence of coolant. I sprayed PB Blaster in each of the cylinders and reinstalled the plugs finger tight. I will attempt to turn over the engine by hand (after I remove the plugs) in a week or so.
I removed all the items in the glove box. All the manuals (with exception of the warranty book) and protecto-plate were there. The "trim" card was also there (see attached PDF). Many miscellaneous service receipts (tune-up, alignment, etc.) were there too. Based on the card, the car was built on November 03, 1971, Baroque Gold w/Covert Beige vinyl top and Covert Beige interior. My late brother bought it December 31, 1971. I can't find the window sticker or original bill of sale. I do have the original Body and Chassis manuals.
So far I am pleased with my findings. The next big step is to see if the engine is free. What size socket is used on the front crankshaft bolt? The engine turns clockwise as viewed from the front?
Stay tuned for the continuing saga.

farmer52

I was able to get some "work" done on the car today. BTW, sunny and 75 here in south central PA. First and foremost the engine is free. After prying off the belts and removing the fan/water pump pulley I was able to get a socket on the crank bolt. I turned the engine about 1/2 revolution. I sprayed some more PBBlaster in the cylinders and hand tightened the spark plugs. Plan to leave it soak for another couple weeks before turning the engine again. I also did some "cleaning", vacuumed the engine compartment to remove all the "varmint" crap. The hood insulator is toast so I removed it. Attaching a few pics of the compartment. I checked the transmission fluid and it is cherry red so no coolant in the tranny.

farmer52

Update...finally had some time today to check out the engine. I was able to turn it several revolutions with a 1/2" ratchet with the spark plugs removed. It had some "resistance" but I think it is okay. I did not remove the distributor or carburetor. The carburetor bolts are loose but I could not get the fuel supply line fittings (fuel pump and carb) loose. Rather than force them I sprayed PBB on the fittings and will let them soak for a while. I need a few parts and will post in the Parts Wanted forum. Any idea why the left side (driver's side) rear portion of the intake manifold is darker near the head? Exhaust for heating choke? Also, the "gold" stripes on each side are vinyl. Were the factory stripes painted or vinyl? The assembly manual states "paint stripes". I don't remember my brother getting the car repainted. Stay tuned...

farmer52

Reviving my old original thread. I am back on the trail of getting my late brother's 72 CS "road worthy". I think it will be less expensive than buying another road worthy vehicle. After all my brother did buy it new.

It is still sitting in the machinery shed at the PA farm. There is not much room to work on the car so I am considering moving it early 2024 to the garage at my new house. I am concerned about "varmints" and also if the brakes are frozen (rusted). As I mentioned the car has been sitting for over 40 years. My plan is to put the shifter in N and "tow" the car out of the shed. Will the brakes (shoes and drums) be frozen to prevent moving? If I can get the car outside and leave it sit for awhile perhaps any "varmints" will abandon the car. Also sitting outside Mother Nature can wash off the excess dust/dirt. Then move the car to my new house, pressure wash the exterior, and move it into the garage. FYI, the new house and garage are about 200 yards away. Any thoughts on moving the car?

Once in the garage I will put it on jack stands. Replace brake components (shoes, drums, lines, etc.), fuel tank/lines, shocks, and exhaust system. Sitting on jack stands will that give me enough room refurbish these items?

The front seat will need reupholstered. The interior is gold cloth. I contacted Legendary and they do not offer cloth upholstery. Other suppliers?

Thanks!

jaunty75

I wouldn't think so. Unless the brakes were actively applied when the car was parked and left that way, why would the disks and shoes be pressed up against the drums and rotors now? Put the car in neutral (assuming you can), and give it a shove. If it moves a few inches, you're good.

I say "assuming you can" regarding shifting into neutral because I went through a somewhat similar experience back in the early '90 reviving a '69 Cutlass that had been sitting, but it had been sitting for only 8 years, not the decades yours has. We wanted to push the car out of the garage into the driveway, and we did finally get the shifter to move from P to N, but it took some time as there was considerable resistance in trying to move the shift lever. We figured it was from the mechanism sitting for so long. We just took our time and moved it a little at a time, and, after several minutes, we finally got it into neutral.

It should. I've done all those things except exhaust work to cars sitting on jack stands. The fuel tank might be the most difficult to get at as you'll be doing lots of sliding around on your back.

But here's some advice. Don't automatically assume that every single part on the car needs to be replaced. Most probably do, but the fuel tank, for example, may not. If it holds fuel and doesn't leak, why change it? Your more likely, related issue is that the fuel gauge won't work and you'll have to replace the sending unit, which will require removing the tank. If you do remove the tank for this purpose, then it might very well be worth putting in a new tank since you had to take the old one out, anyway.

I wouldnt't wait for mother nature. Get the car outside, open the hood, and shoo those varmints away. Clean out any nests and so forth that you find. Look up under the dash and under the seats. You should completely remove the rear seats and look under them. Animals like to hide in soft things like upholstery, insulation, etc. They like it under the hood because it's sheltered and there are things that they can chew on.

Back in 2016 you mentioned adding options like A/C, cruise control, etc. That's a lot of work regardless of what people say, and a car that left the factory without A/C does not have the internal infrastructure like an appropriately-sized radiator, alternator, etc. for A/C. You'll have to make cutouts in the dash, replace the control unit, possibly change the heater control valve, etc. etc. etc. etc. That's a lot of disassembly and work. If you must have A/C, going with an aftermarket unit as was mentioned would be the better way to go.


If it were my car, I would treat it as a tribute to my brother, I would do my best to restore it to original factory specs and leave it at that. That's the way he bought it, after all.

no1oldsfan

farmer52

jaunty75
Thank you for your thoughts. I am assuming worst case scenario. 40 years is a long time sitting. The car was parked without the parking brake applied, transmission in PARK. Is the column shift lever connected to the transmission via a cable? Or linkage? Sorry I did not look at the car recently.

Yes, A/C would not be an easy task. I doubt I will add it to the car. If and when I get it "road worthy" it will only be driven locally on nice days. Granted it gets hot in July/August in PA but I can survive. Drive it in the AM or late PM.

Thanks again for your reply....good points to consider!

jaunty75

I'm pretty sure it's a linkage. The first thing to do is try shifting it from P to N. If it goes easily, problem solved. If not, see if it moves at all and can perhaps be gently rocked back and forth to free it up. That's what we did with the '69 Cutlass. You're trying to move linkages that haven't been moved in 40 years. It's likely that there's some stiffness and possibly some rust holding things together that shouldn't be held together.

As always, don't assume the worst, but expect it, and take things one step at a time.

farmer52

I checked the parts, service, and assembly manuals and it looks like a linkage. I will spray PBBlaster on the linkage parts and leave it soak for a while before trying to move from P to N.

As always, don't assume the worst, but expect it, and take things one step at a time. Good words to live by.

farmer52

I am trying to understand the parts manuals. I see
70-72 F85
71-72 5439-69, 6439-69, 6835-45, 8439, 8639, 5457, 6457-67, 6647-67, 8437, and 8637.
What do these designate and which is for my CS?
My CS is a 1972 J57.
Thanks!
UPDATE Dec 18th
I think I solved the mystery. The F85 is all A bodies (correct me if I am wrong)
The numbers represent the "large cars" - Delta 88/98 (B and C bodies) and the two (2) digit number after is the engine
When reading the PM I should focus on parts listed for "F85" unless stated otherwise (i.e. Cutlass Supreme).
Again, correct me if I am wrong - I am learning.

Greg Rogers

I went to move 3 old Mopars that I had parked in a field as parts cars for 20 years or so. They had 4 wheel drum brakes. When I tried to tow them out most of the brakes were seized- That is a PIA, believe me... Another car was a 72 Cutlass that had discs on front- they were not seized, I don't know if yours will be seized after 40 years sitting in a dirt floor building, you could have 4 wheel drums or discs in front. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

farmer52

Greg,
My CS has manual 4 wheel drums. Other than sitting on "dirt" at least it was inside. The shed is "ventilated" (gaps in boards and doors). It will be spring 2024 before I "attempt" to move it.

Greg Rogers

The shoes seize on the drums, don't know why. The fronts are easier cuz you can take the outer bearings out and "rock" drum back and forth and maybe get loose. Rears are worse- lots of beating and maybe will come. I had to actually take a torch to drums on rear and cut them thru, ruining drums... But hopefully you won't have that problem. Good luck.

don71

Thanks for stopping in and giving us an update. I remember this posting when you first joined. Hard to believe its been this long ago.

Good luck on your plans for the future. Look forward to any updates.

farmer52

Greg - not what I wanted to hear but thanks for sharing.
Don - been busy with other things. Moving the CS up on the LONG list. Frustrated looking at "drivers" and the extravagant prices. Might as well put money into the CS.

My first thought is to remove the plugs (again) and bar the engine. Make sure it is still free. Then install a battery and find out if the starter works and spins the engine. If successful proceed to reinstall the carb, replace the fuel pump, temporarily plumb a fuel supply, and reinstall plugs/wires. Find out if the engine runs. I do not plan to install the alternator nor belts. It will not be run very long. If it can be started, then I will reinstall the alternator and replace the belts. Sound like a reasonable plan? Comments? Suggestions?

jaunty75

It mostly sounds like a good plan, but two comments.

If the engine turned in 2016, I'm guessing it still turns today, but checking again is not a bad idea.

If it were me, I would install the alternator and belts before trying to start it. Not sure what is gained by checking to see if the engine runs with no alternator. It can run that way, but what are you proving? If the belts and alternator are installed and the engine runs, great. Check to see that the electrical system is working ok (battery not being discharged, no GEN light illuminated on the dash). If the engine won't run, the things that could be causing the problem do not likely involve removing the alternator and belts to get at.

Just my thoughts.

farmer52

I agree but not installing the alternator/belts is one less thing to do. I will see how "motivated" I am at the time (and the temperature of the "air conditioned" shed). The fuel pump and fuel connections are more accessible with the alternator removed?

jaunty75

Yes, but you have to do it eventually, right? I mean, belts and an alternator are sort of required at some point if you want to drive the car, and, if you have them, put them on. It's neither difficult nor time consuming.

Possibly, depending on which side of the engine the alternator is on. So put in the new fuel pump first, then the alternator and belts.

farmer52

Fuel pump is on the lower RH side of the engine, under the alternator.

BangScreech4-4-2

Before you go spending too much money on any mechanicals, have a real good look at the floors and frame. I saw some troubling things in those couple of pictures you posted back in 2016 and matters may not have improved since then. Bodywork and frame repair is expensive and evaluating potential need for either or both may help you figure out how to proceed.

Also, I'm hoping you got rid of Grandma's curtains that were covering it.

tkcutlass

Maybe take a screwdriver or awl and poke that frame in the badly rusted areas to see how many areas it pokes through.

farmer52

It is still covered with an old bed spread.

I will check the frame again but it was okay. Perhaps just send the car to the crusher in the spring. It will save me time and money.

BangScreech4-4-2

Not saying you should do that; just do a thorough inspection before you go too much further. Too many times I've seen people abandon projects because they discovered extensive frame or body cancer after they'd already spent a bunch on mechanical work.

no1oldsfan

Sure looks like a super clean car. Years sitting haven't helped it. I wish you good luck getting it done.

Greg Rogers

Ken, Tim (tk cutlass) is talking from experience, he started with a car that was too far gone and ended up getting another - check out his restoration thread. We are not trying to talk you out of it, but you want to know what you have before spending lots of time and money.

tkcutlass

Don't send it to the crusher I'll give more than what the crusher guys will give you.
Swap the frame if need be, hard to tell but the body looks like it's in much better condition than what I worked with.

farmer52

Reading the latest posts has me discouraged. The body is solid and the frame appears solid too although I did not check it. The access in the shed is very limited. Can I use a hammer and tap on the frame (what little I can access)? Where are the "critical" areas to check?
The carburetor is rebuilt and I have a new fuel pump. The only new expense would be a battery (~$150) and my time. Then I could try to start the engine. If it runs, try backing it out of the shed. Outside I will have better access to the underside (try backing it up on ramps).
Then again, call the local salvage yard and have them haul it away (simplest, easiest, and less stressful). I am not into parting the car and shipping parts. It is a basic CS and of little value for parts. Years ago I listed the car for sale and the only interest were "tire kickers".

Greg Rogers

Ken, don't be discouraged. The car maybe in great shape! I don't know what your background is or where this car is ( out in the country- in town?? ). Here's a suggestion, which I would do. I see you have some other older vehicles- Is the 12 jeep or 90 Dodge have a old battery that might be due for replacement but still works? Go out and buy a battery for that and use old battery in Cutlass to see if it will start??? At this time of year I would prolly wait till spring, but hook your 4wd jeep up to car and see if it pulls out easy, and deal with things as they come up. Good luck- we're rootin for ya!

jaunty75

You're giving up way too easily! This whole thing is supposed to be fun, not something to be dreaded.

Also, I think you're putting the cart before the horse with this checking for rust. Get the car out into the sunshine, even if you have to get a few friends to push it out of the garage. When you can get all around the car and not be in cramped quarters, then you can really look it over. But worry about getting it running first, THEN start worrying where there's rust.

If you really don't want to keep the car, I would try to sell it whole first, rather that just send it to the crusher. For the right price, and it sounds like you're willing to practically give it away, someone will want it as a project.

But before you do anything else, get it out of the garage and get it running. All the rest comes later.