thoughts on paint systems...

[Eddie Hansen]

well the last time i painted a car it was with acrylic lacquer, ( yes i am dating my self) the system was ok, and I was able to get factory colours etc) what is the latest trend for paint for the do-it-yourselfer, I am not up to the painting stage yet but I usually like to keep all the primers, fillers, glazes etc from the same manufacturer. I am planning on patching the rear quarters, and taking the advice to butt weld the seams etc, hopefully I can get more of the paint stripped off to see how much I need to remove, I am nervous about this, the flange repair seemed so staright forward, but I have to go with the experts, anyway I was wondering about the paint systems. how would I go about getting the right colours mixed? after reading all the posts in the cloning thread, I am now thinking to paint the car like the 69 olds and find and refit all the cutlass badging, cutlass grills etc, and maybe put a hurst equipped badge or something on it.. (if I can find some of the old metal ones) so how do I find the correct white, gold, and what do I do for the black pinstripe?

[Run to Rund]

A professional auto paint supplier like your local PPG dealer will have color charts and also can computer match your sample to make up custom blends for colors that they don't have on their charts. You can go with their DP50LF epoxy primer for a better base, but try to put on the color the same day. I put acrylic lacquer over it, and that will give you the correct finish for a restoration. As you know, lacquer has its problems but is easy to apply and to fix screw ups. You can get a cheap disposable respirator, very important for epoxy, somewhat so for lacquer, and critical if you go to polyurethane. I picked lacquer for authenticity and because I, like you, have done it before successfully with the equipment I have.

In some locations you will have trouble getting lacquer becaue of the environazis. Yet polyurethane is so toxic. Go figure.

[Eddie Hansen]

I hear you I was worried about the polyurethane cause I do not own a spraysuit nor an external air feed mask etc, I also sprayed in my garage with just a big exhaust fan in the window, pulling through a heating unit filter, not the best solution, and I may see if there is anywhere you can rent a spray booth, or worse scenario would be to have someone spray it for me... but I have all the guns etc even picked up some hvlp guns. Lacquer is pretty hard to get mixed in jersey ( where i am at) but I have seen it online. I am not to worried about orginality now, I like stock, but I am not anal retentive about it..
do you think I could spray the poly in the garage?

thanks in advance..

[Oldsmaniac]

Im in central NJ and 3 years ago got PPG laquer from the local paint shop. Since you used it before I would suggest it and it does give the proper look especially if your britework/chrome is not 100%.

[Dapapadon]

Come on guys, acrylic lacquer in at least 40 years old. And I don't think it's a recommended top coat over DP50LF, but I'll check. I plan to shoot some tomorrow night on 2 SSIII wheels. Then topcoat with PPG acrylic urethane, a single stage.

Eddie, get this book: "Hot to Paint Your Car on a Budget" by Pat Ganahl. The author does a great job of explaining paint systems, old and new. And how to paint your car at home with the new stuff. This is by far the best paint book I've read for a hobbyist. I can't stress enough how much I'd recommend this book for any car buff who plans to do any paint or bodywork on their car. It's that GOOD!! It's around $25.00, Amazon.com has it for $16.47.

The new paints are urethanes, not polyurethanes. Most can be sprayed with regular respirators and don't require air supplied ones.

Don

[Oldsmaniac]

Originally Posted by Dapapadon

Come on guys, acrylic lacquer in at least 40 years old. And I don't think it's a recommended top coat over DP50LF, but I'll check. I plan to shoot some tomorrow night on 2 SSIII wheels. Then topcoat with PPG acrylic urethane, a single stage.

Eddie, get this book: "Hot to Paint Your Car on a Budget" by Pat Ganahl. The author does a great job of explaining paint systems, old and new. And how to paint your car at home with the new stuff. This is by far the best paint book I've read for a hobbyist. I can't stress enough how much I'd recommend this book for any car buff who plans to do any paint or bodywork on their car. It's that GOOD!! It's around $25.00, Amazon.com has it for $16.47.

The new paints are urethanes, not polyurethanes. Most can be sprayed with regular respirators and don't require air supplied ones.

Don

I think lacquer is older than that but 40 year old paint technology on a 40 year old car is what I like to see. The plastic super shine clear coat is not to my taste. I grew up with lacquer painted cars and most new paint on old cars doesnt have the look I remember...for us low budget guys the fast dry lacquer can be applied in the yard and dry before one gnat can stick to it...and as I mentioned old britework and chrome stands out ugly against the super shine paint. I would use the paint manufacturers recommendations on what primer to use.

[Eddie Hansen]

the bright work??? wow great point, mine isn't too bad actually, and I need to get front and rear bumpers, I have the rear with cut outs, but it needs work, and not sure it is even a good core as it has a small rust hole, and needs to be straightened some, but 69 442 bumpers are far and few between...

thanks for the tip on the book I will get it... I think I am looking for more strength then plastic shine, but I feel very comfy painting lacquer ( wet sanding my goofs... LOL.. )

[Run to Rund]

The cowl plate on my 42 year old car says Magic Mirror Acrylic Lacquer
I don't use 18-26" bling bling wheels and I don't use polyurethane on a 1966; just my taste. Neither my car nor I do drugs, either. No nitrous here! I know there are much stronger paints out there, but lacquer is very easy to fix, and the epoxy primer gives more protection to the sheet metal.

DP...LF epoxy primers are OK for lacquer finish color coats. They are also OK over _old_ lacquer that hasn't been completely sanded down. Check PPG bulletins P-148 and P-196. BTW in the DPLF series, 50 is gray, and there are 5 other numbers/colors.

[Dapapadon]

OK guys, shoot the lacquer! And I'll admit I've seen newer cars that do have a plastic look to them. I call it the "Saran Wrap" look. More noticeable in some color than others. From what I heard it's from the clear getting cloudy over time.

But from the time I started fooling with cars in the 70's glossy paint was the thing to have. The glossier the better! For me, I still like glossy paint. And prefer it as durable as I can get it. My 66 Jetstar 88 & 67 Cutlass will get base coat/ clear coat because they're metallic. The 70 3/4 truck is orange and my 69 442 is black. Both solid colors (no metallic) and will be single stage acrylic urethane paint.

Run to Rund - The biggest wheels I have are 15" and the only nitrous I ever had was at the dentist office, once - 15 or 20 years ago. I didn't get to paint those wheels I mentioned, had to work late. And you already confirmed the DP**LF with acrylic lacquer. I would agree that it would be a great sealer. Anyone considering it should plan to spray it just prior to the topcoat. (w/ about an hour wait for drying) The recoat window is only 24 hours. And it's not considered sandable. Are the other modern two part primer/surfacers OK with acrylic lacquer? I know their much better than the old lacquer primer/surfacers. Seems like they would be if sealed with the DPLF. Interesting!

Oldsmaniac - Yeah the new paints cost more, much more! But I spend a lot of time repairing rust, replacing parts, doing dent repair and leveling panels. Maybe I fool with cars others would consider parts cars. But I do it at the CC and the other guys are doing the same to their cars. So at best I'll have 100 hours in prep work (more like 200) before I spray any topcoat. Guess I prefer to put some durable paint over all that work. Yeah it'll cost me a few hundred bucks more. But maybe I'll get a few extra years before I have to think about doing it again. And if I painted it, I know what's there and should be able to repair it later.

Don

[Eddie Hansen]

do folks still spray featherfill over the bodywork prior to starting primer??
and what is a good primer to use while I am doing the body work??

[Eddie Hansen]

Dapa, Thank you got the book monday, and have read it cover to cover and also parts of it several times, Excellent advice thank you!.

I am now going to see if there is a catalyzed (sp?) high build and bare metal urethane primer that can be used with lacquer? after reading the book, the catalyzed primers didn't shrink etc and were very hard, the book also answered my questions regarding featherfill LOL... I dunno, in the new style paints if i paint it like a hurst olds, the white seems straight forward,could even go one step, then the gold panels and stripes I guess need base coat clear, what do i do for the black pinstripes tape them off??? and then clear everything? anyway going to tackle the quarters soon, crapping in my pants LOL....

[Olds64]

I just read this entire post and was completely blown away! I should get ahold of that book. It seems like a must have for someone that doesn't know anything about painting their car. Ultimately, I just want to do some prep work on my car before I have it painted. I have a garage but I am sure I would screw something up if I painted it myself.

[Dapapadon]

You're Welcome! I can understand what's written in that book. Others I have I've read & reread several times and still don't quite understand some of it.

Dealing with masking lines is what separates the men from the boys in custom painting. Guess I'm a newborn, I try to avoid it. Or change colors at trim. Some guys use hand painted pinstriping to hide the masking line. You can see this at car shows. And it's probably what I would do on a custom two tone or flames.

If you're going for three colors on the car as you described talk to your local paint supplier. You might research it a little first. I'd do it with base coat/clear coat. Not sure how to explain this, I don't do it. But when you paint the masked area, then remove the masking a small amount of paint that extended up over the masking remains. In painters terms they call this a "waterfall". To minimize the waterfall you can use thin masking tape like 3M's Fineline. But you still have a waterfall, only smaller. Some base coats can be sanded, some cannot! (I don't think you can sand PPG's) Some colors don't take sanding well, silver may show sanding scratches even on a base that can be sanded.

Some systems have an inter-coat clear available for this. Kinda like a clear you shoot over the base then sand out the waterfalls. Then shoot the final clear.

As I said, I don't do this. Just passing on what little I know. Best to do a little research, then talk to your local supplier. Personally I'd then buy a little paint in the recommended system and do some test panels till I was comfortable I could get the results I wanted. I'd hate to see you paint the car then not be happy with the masking lines.

Hope this helps, Don

[Eddie Hansen]

Thanks don, I am not really talking that custom of a paint job, just white and gold like a 69 hurst, the gold had black pinstriping, I have used one shot before but I don't think you can clear over that? either way the book was excellent!! not a step by step how to do but a great book to get ideas from and some up to date knowledge, ( OLDS 64 YOU WILL LOVE THE BOOK BRO) I am definately a garage painter, and will see how we go along... does ppg also make the interior semi gloss paints?