ClassicOldsmobile.com  

Go Back   ClassicOldsmobile.com > Repair & Restoration > Chassis, Tires/Wheels, Brakes, & Related > Chassis/Body/Frame
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search

Welcome to Classic Oldsmobile Forum!
Welcome to Classic Oldsmobile forum,

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to start new topics, reply to conversations, privately message other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join Classic Oldsmobile Forum today!


Reply
 
 
 
submit to reddit
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old February 28th, 2011, 01:48 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
Front Lower Control Arm mount/ear hole wallowed out

I went to install my stock front lower control arms (with ES poly bushings) earlier and ran into a problem. The hole (circled in red) on the rearmost drivers side frame mount/ear is wallowed out a bit. On the inside of this mount, the metal protrudes about 2-3mm or so on the top of the hole as a result. This will need to be smoothed out obviously. The bolt jiggles up and down a bit on the wallowed end, but not all the way up. The 'true center' seems to be the bottom where it sits in the pics. I can stick about half inch of my index finger through the hole. What would be the best way to tackle this?


Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


Inside pic of mount/ear...
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by oldzy; October 22nd, 2011 at 09:32 PM.
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2011, 02:00 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Dave Siltman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: maryland
Posts: 1,080
My suggestion would be to weld a good quality washer of the correct size to the mount at the proper hole location. I had the same problem many years ago on a '69 Chevelle drag car on the rear upper mounts. We found some washers that were the exact size of the original hole and welded them on. No one will know it's there but you!
Dave Siltman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2011, 04:10 PM   #3
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
MDchanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 14,575
I've got the same situation in the right upper rear-end mount on the frame of my Chevelle.
It was raced pretty hard before I got it in 1980, and I drove it every day for 10 years.
Now it's wallowed by about 1/4", and has a very interesting "throttle steer" quality to it.
I've pretty much decided on an alignment jig of my own design for whenever I get "a round tuit," because I've got no idea exactly where the original hole was to begin with, and I don't want to permanently align it wrong.
Also, it would seem that the replacement metal can't just lay over the original, but has to sit within the hole, because the rubber bushing has a toothed central tube which is supposed to be squeezed tight between the metal mounts, and if I leave the hole big, it won't be squeezed at all.

I'd love to hear from other who have fixed similar problems, though, before I do mine (which ain't gonna be soon...).

- Eric
MDchanic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2011, 08:46 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mass
Posts: 975
Step bit hole out to 1 ".

Cut a 15/16 replacement disc from proper thickness material with a hole saw.

Weld the replacement disc - centered - into the 1" hole. Grind front and back smooth.

Use the drill hole from the hole saw as your guide to drill to the proper size for the bolt.

Paint it and you will never know it was ever worked on.
__________________
Pete

1964 Cutlass
1971 Cutlass
1983 Hurst / Olds
1994 Cutlass Convertible
2001 Aurora
2002 Bravada
2004 Alero
Boldsmobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 04:14 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,594
If it was me, it seems the original hole is fairly easy to define. I would smooth everything to eliminate the metal bulging on the inside, clean away the paint inside and around the hole and just fill the area that is worn away with a good weld. There's not that much missing and this will be an easy fix. Just make sure the welding is done correctly to get correct penetration into the existing metal. Grind everything smooth, clean up the hole and you'll be ready to go with no evidence of a repair; that is as long as you touch up the nice paint you have on your frame.
69442C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 07:14 AM   #6
Old(s) Fart
 
joe_padavano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 16,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69442C View Post
If it was me, it seems the original hole is fairly easy to define. I would smooth everything to eliminate the metal bulging on the inside, clean away the paint inside and around the hole and just fill the area that is worn away with a good weld. There's not that much missing and this will be an easy fix. Just make sure the welding is done correctly to get correct penetration into the existing metal. Grind everything smooth, clean up the hole and you'll be ready to go with no evidence of a repair; that is as long as you touch up the nice paint you have on your frame.
I agree. That was exactly my first reaction when I saw the photos.
__________________
Joe Padavano

62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the NV desert car)
62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the San Jose car)
64 Vista Cruiser
64 Jetstar 88 Conv
66 442 L-69 Conv
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30
72 442
84 Custom Cruiser
86 Caprice wagon (w/307 Olds)
joe_padavano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 07:24 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Chesrown 67 OAI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dover, Ohio
Posts: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDchanic View Post
I've got the same situation in the right upper rear-end mount on the frame of my Chevelle.
It was raced pretty hard before I got it in 1980, and I drove it every day for 10 years.
Now it's wallowed by about 1/4", and has a very interesting "throttle steer" quality to it.
I've pretty much decided on an alignment jig of my own design for whenever I get "a round tuit," because I've got no idea exactly where the original hole was to begin with, and I don't want to permanently align it wrong.
Also, it would seem that the replacement metal can't just lay over the original, but has to sit within the hole, because the rubber bushing has a toothed central tube which is supposed to be squeezed tight between the metal mounts, and if I leave the hole big, it won't be squeezed at all.

I'd love to hear from other who have fixed similar problems, though, before I do mine (which ain't gonna be soon...).

- Eric
You could always go to one of those adjustable upper control arms to solve your alinement problem after repairing your mounting hole.
Chesrown 67 OAI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 07:42 AM   #8
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
MDchanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 14,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesrown 67 OAI View Post
You could always go to one of those adjustable upper control arms to solve your alinement problem after repairing your mounting hole.
Yeah, that thought had occurred to me, but then I would be at risk of being accused of "pro-touring," whatever that is .

- Eric
MDchanic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 08:02 AM   #9
Old(s) Fart
 
joe_padavano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 16,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesrown 67 OAI View Post
You could always go to one of those adjustable upper control arms to solve your alinement problem after repairing your mounting hole.
You do realize the upper arms are already adjustable in stock form, right?
__________________
Joe Padavano

62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the NV desert car)
62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the San Jose car)
64 Vista Cruiser
64 Jetstar 88 Conv
66 442 L-69 Conv
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30
72 442
84 Custom Cruiser
86 Caprice wagon (w/307 Olds)
joe_padavano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 08:08 AM   #10
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
MDchanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 14,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
You do realize the upper arms are already adjustable in stock form, right?
I hadn't realized it. Seems to me you'd need a pretty big sledgehammer to "adjust" one of those...

We are talking about the REAR uppers, right?

- Eric
MDchanic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 08:16 AM   #11
Old(s) Fart
 
joe_padavano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 16,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDchanic View Post
I hadn't realized it. Seems to me you'd need a pretty big sledgehammer to "adjust" one of those...

We are talking about the REAR uppers, right?

- Eric
Psst. Eric.

You might want to check the title of this thread.

We'll wait.
__________________
Joe Padavano

62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the NV desert car)
62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the San Jose car)
64 Vista Cruiser
64 Jetstar 88 Conv
66 442 L-69 Conv
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30
72 442
84 Custom Cruiser
86 Caprice wagon (w/307 Olds)
joe_padavano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 08:38 AM   #12
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
MDchanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 14,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
Psst. Eric.

You might want to check the title of this thread.

We'll wait.
Joe, I was just making conversation when I said, in post #3,
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDchanic View Post
I've got the same situation in the right upper rear-end mount on the frame of my Chevelle.
.
I know the comment may be about 9 feet off from the topic of the thread, but it seemed apropos of the general topic of wallowed suspension frame mounts.

I suppose you're going to boot me to the "Other Makes" section now, too, since the question was about one a those durn Chebbies...

- Eric
MDchanic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 09:02 AM   #13
Old(s) Fart
 
joe_padavano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 16,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDchanic View Post
I know the comment may be about 9 feet off from the topic of the thread, but it seemed apropos of the general topic of wallowed suspension frame mounts.

I suppose you're going to boot me to the "Other Makes" section now, too, since the question was about one a those durn Chebbies...

- Eric
Sorry, I completely missed that.
__________________
Joe Padavano

62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the NV desert car)
62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the San Jose car)
64 Vista Cruiser
64 Jetstar 88 Conv
66 442 L-69 Conv
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30
72 442
84 Custom Cruiser
86 Caprice wagon (w/307 Olds)
joe_padavano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 09:29 AM   #14
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
MDchanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 14,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
Sorry, I completely missed that.
'Salright.
MDchanic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 01:57 PM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
Thanks for the tips.

Here are a few close-up pics...

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by oldzy; October 22nd, 2011 at 08:26 PM.
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 02:01 PM   #16
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
MDchanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 14,575
Did someone do some welding around there already?

- Eric
MDchanic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 02:02 PM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
It does appear that way... the inside area around the hole is really ratty looking.

I got this frame long ago, so no idea.
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 02:10 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
Not sure if this is a hint or not...

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by oldzy; October 22nd, 2011 at 08:26 PM.
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 02:13 PM   #19
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
MDchanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 14,575
Looks like a piece of wire from a wire-fed welder.
Not what they used at the factory, as far as I know.

- Eric
MDchanic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 02:17 PM   #20
Old(s) Fart
 
joe_padavano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 16,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDchanic View Post
Looks like a piece of wire from a wire-fed welder.
Not what they used at the factory, as far as I know.

- Eric
Many of my cars have had stubs of weld filler wire like that from the factory. No big deal.
__________________
Joe Padavano

62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the NV desert car)
62 F-85 Deluxe wagon (the San Jose car)
64 Vista Cruiser
64 Jetstar 88 Conv
66 442 L-69 Conv
68 W-30
69 H/O
69 442
70 W-30
72 442
84 Custom Cruiser
86 Caprice wagon (w/307 Olds)
joe_padavano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 02:20 PM   #21
Connoisseur d'Junque
 
MDchanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 14,575
I thought they did them all with stick-welders.

Huh. You learn something every day.

- Eric
MDchanic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2011, 04:22 PM   #22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Delmar, NY
Posts: 201
They did have wire feed welders back then - big industrial ones, even though the hobbyist only got them in the last 20 years. If you think about the little scrap rod from stick welding you throw out at the end multiplied by hundreds of thousands of car frames, GM probably saved a bunch of money in weld wastage alone.

My car frame had a bunch of weld wire pieces like that.
oldsconv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2011, 11:29 AM   #23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
Another issue on this front lower mount... there is a 1/4" or so gap in between the bushing and mount. See below pic.

NOTE: the bolt is just snug... not torqued at all yet.


Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by oldzy; October 22nd, 2011 at 08:26 PM.
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 11:47 AM   #24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
ok... I torqued to ~82ft lbs and the gap did NOT disappear. It decreased, but did not disappear completely.


Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by oldzy; October 22nd, 2011 at 08:26 PM.
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 12:12 PM   #25
Registered User
 
jensenracing77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: brazil indiana
Posts: 5,967
i bet that is why the hole is messed up. it is pivoting on the bolt and not flexing the rubber bushing. take the a arm out and squeeze it together a little or smack it with a rubber BFH.
__________________
62 Jetfire
70 W-30
Another Jetfire Wanted
jensenracing77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 12:16 PM   #26
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
What bout torquing it to 120 or so, backing off to 80, then see if the gap decreases more?
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 12:22 PM   #27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
Also, these are poly bushings, and IIRC, the inner bolt sleeve slightly protrudes a touch from the ends of the bushing. Could be wrong, but I though they did a bit.
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 12:24 PM   #28
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
Another thought... I have not torqued the other bolt/nut beside it at all. Wonder if that might help a wee bit?
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 01:13 PM   #29
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Gladstone, OR
Posts: 491
Could you weld a washer to the inside to fill the gap. Then weld the worn part of the hole up to the washer. File the hole to clean it up. Shouldn't be any worse than trying to deform (or reform) the bracket. Just a suggestion.
Dapapadon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 01:13 PM   #30
Registered User
 
jensenracing77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: brazil indiana
Posts: 5,967
if it were me i would take out the A arm. i think it would be best if it were closer together to begin with. that way there won't be spring tension on it. if you torqued it to 120 (other than bolt issues) i would be worried that when you re torqued it to 80 it may not actually be tight enough for the bushing to be tight. the gap may be gone but still not tight enough to the bushing. i am far from a professional so i am sure you will have better or more advice coming soon.
__________________
62 Jetfire
70 W-30
Another Jetfire Wanted
jensenracing77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 01:21 PM   #31
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,594
When you tighten those control arm bolts, you are only going to close the gap as far as the metal sleeve in the center of the bushing will allow. You don't want to have it close against the rubber or poly portion of the bushing or that would create a terrible noise every time the coltrol arm moved up and down. You may be fine where it is as long as the tabs are pulled tight against the metal sleeve in the center of the bushing. If they are in contact with each other, any attempt to close the gap more will be unnecessary.
69442C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 01:33 PM   #32
Registered User
 
jensenracing77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: brazil indiana
Posts: 5,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69442C View Post
When you tighten those control arm bolts, you are only going to close the gap as far as the metal sleeve in the center of the bushing will allow. You don't want to have it close against the rubber or poly portion of the bushing or that would create a terrible noise every time the coltrol arm moved up and down. You may be fine where it is as long as the tabs are pulled tight against the metal sleeve in the center of the bushing. If they are in contact with each other, any attempt to close the gap more will be unnecessary.
after looking closer, that may be right. it looks like the sleeve may be in contact with the frame. that is all you need. i can't tell if that is the bolt or the sleeve.
__________________
62 Jetfire
70 W-30
Another Jetfire Wanted
jensenracing77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
That is a good point. It is near impossible to tell if the inner sleeve is touching the arm or not. I will try to find out. However... the poly sides do touch the arms on all other contact points of the front LCA's.

thx.
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2011, 07:05 AM   #34
No it's not a parts car!!
 
Schne442's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Palatine, Illinois
Posts: 175
Did you ever measure the frame bracket on the other side to see if it is the same as this one. may be the cause of all your problems if it has been bent or somthing. You can take a large ajustable wrench and use it to bend the bracket back into proper shape.
__________________
ALL MY MONEY

If you can't dazzle them with knowledge baffle them with bull s**t
Schne442 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2011, 06:14 PM   #35
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 1,450
UPDATE: I don't know why I did not check this properly earlier... but the EXACT same gap (although a touch wider on the one in my older post above b/c the one ear is still a bit 'bent' on the inside.. as well as wallowed out hole that needs to be correkted.) exists on ALL other (three) lower front control arm bushings.

And the reason for this... the inner sleeves on the poly Energy Suspension bushings protrude. See pic below. I dug some spare bushings up, and this is the case on ALL the 'round' bushings. However, the inner sleeves on the OVAL bushings (I opted for the all round control arms, although my car came with round and ovals originally) do NOT protrude like the round ones. There must be a reason for this. Will have to contact ES and find out why.


Click the image to open in full size.



On a related note, after torquing my rear upper Hotchkis control arms, I noticed a gap there as well. Pic below. It is their supplied poly bushing, so I assume this is normal (although it looks weird).


Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by oldzy; October 22nd, 2011 at 08:26 PM.
oldzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2011, 06:14 PM
ClassicOldsmobile
1957 Oldsmobile




Paid Advertisement
 
 
 
submit to reddit
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Front suspension lower control arm bracket and frame damage crholds442 Chassis/Body/Frame 13 January 20th, 2011 09:23 AM
Looking for Lower left control arm for sale. rodsolds Parts Wanted 0 January 2nd, 2011 09:00 PM
Front lower control arm bushings big_wheel1971 Chassis/Body/Frame 7 January 23rd, 2010 05:34 PM
Need help with lower control arm bolts J-(Chicago) Parts Wanted 9 February 5th, 2009 05:05 PM
NEED A LOWER CONTROL ARM!! 72CUTTY Chassis/Body/Frame 3 August 22nd, 2008 08:30 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:42 PM.


Advertising - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Jobs
All content Copyright 2008 by Internet Brands, Inc.