Cortez Silver 1970 W-31 real or clone?
February 15th, 2015, 08:56 AM
#1
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Cortez Silver 1970 W-31 real or clone?
Lovely car but I have some questions.
Power bench seat in a W-31?. Anyone ever seen a W-31 with a power bench seat before?
Why does the car have center dash a/c vents?
Car is missing trunk lid emblem & has non original notched bumper (common for W-31 cars to have acquired the notched bumpers over the years).
So is it real or a clone?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oldsmobile-C...US_Cars_Trucks
Power bench seat in a W-31?. Anyone ever seen a W-31 with a power bench seat before?
Why does the car have center dash a/c vents?
Car is missing trunk lid emblem & has non original notched bumper (common for W-31 cars to have acquired the notched bumpers over the years).
So is it real or a clone?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oldsmobile-C...US_Cars_Trucks
Last edited by oldsmobiledave; February 15th, 2015 at 09:00 AM.
February 15th, 2015, 12:33 PM
#4
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February 15th, 2015, 12:38 PM
#5
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further
I don't think the presence of the power seat is a problem but it is rare. What I asked was has anyone seen one in a W-31 before? I have only seen the power bench in a few 1970 cars and never in a W-31 optioned one.
The center vents shown are only used on a/c cars.
February 15th, 2015, 01:31 PM
#6
Lansing built
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Location: Grand Ledge, MI
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I already inquired about this one! I asked for broadcast card and picture of the balancer and cowl tag. I too asked about the A/C center diffusers,(notice the left hand vents pulls are MIA,cutout rear bumper and who stole all of the windshelid washer components and cowl screens? And the add on coolant recovery tank.
So far I did receive a response today but they are forwarding my inquiry to a Max?
Pat
So far I did receive a response today but they are forwarding my inquiry to a Max?
Pat
Last edited by 1970cs; February 15th, 2015 at 01:33 PM.
February 16th, 2015, 03:22 PM
#11
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venting
Anyone notice that the rear tail-lamps don't match Cutlass S typing, outer pair have the chrome Supreme trim, inner pair is S or 442 type.
Brett
February 16th, 2015, 05:55 PM
#15
Based on what has been presented thus far I do not see how anyone could make a beyond a reasonable doubt judgement, about the authenticity of the car. There are so many other clues to look for.
Regarding the sticker on the radiator cover, it has been my experience that the originals are more of a vinyl than paper and the repros are generally paper. This one "looks" to be paper to me.
Regarding the sticker on the radiator cover, it has been my experience that the originals are more of a vinyl than paper and the repros are generally paper. This one "looks" to be paper to me.
February 16th, 2015, 07:52 PM
#16
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My 71 has the same center vents, non ac kick panels and no hint the car ever had ac. I thought it was the vents down low between the knees that indicated ac.
Last edited by woodie582; February 16th, 2015 at 09:23 PM.
February 16th, 2015, 09:26 PM
#17
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'69's with no a/c did not have a functioning center vent, they had an eggcrate pattern that was solid. Edit: for '68 and '69 model years, 70-72 non a/c had a solid horizontal ribbed piece.
Last edited by 1969w3155; February 17th, 2015 at 10:18 AM.
February 17th, 2015, 09:14 AM
#19
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center vents
Sorry but you are misinformed on the dash center vents. No center vents on non a/c cars on any of my 1970-1972 cars (and trust me I have a large sample group).
February 17th, 2015, 11:07 AM
#21
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that could be it's been about 15 yrs since i sold my w-31 and i have no interior pics of it to tell if it did or did not have em.
February 17th, 2015, 05:06 PM
#22
Lansing built
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Reply
Well, "Max" replied no broadcast card or sticker! That would figure.
I asked for pictures of cowl tag and picture of the balancer. It seemed to get ignored. I will place a call.
Pat
I asked for pictures of cowl tag and picture of the balancer. It seemed to get ignored. I will place a call.
Pat
February 17th, 2015, 08:54 PM
#23
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February 19th, 2015, 03:00 AM
#24
Lansing built
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I made another request for pictures again and asked why my picture request were not addressed! I will give them a couple of days to respond.
I also noticed that the front divider has the rocket on it! Looking at factory brochures the W-31 S should have had the S in the center of the rocket emblem!
Pat
I also noticed that the front divider has the rocket on it! Looking at factory brochures the W-31 S should have had the S in the center of the rocket emblem!
Pat
February 19th, 2015, 08:16 AM
#25
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Here is my opinion on "W-31 real or clone?"
When I am inspecting a particular 1970 or 1971 “W31 or W30” and determining its value for either myself or for someone else, if the seller cannot provide an original Lansing Broadcast Card or GM of Canada documentation that authenticates the seller’s claim of the car being a real W31 or W30, then I consider that car to be a standard Cutlass or 442. If the car has no Broadcast Card or GM of Canada documentation, but the car has some correct ORIGINAL W-machine parts on it, then I will ad the value of those parts onto the value of the car.
The reason I do this is because no matter our initial long term plans for any car we acquire, eventually the vast majority of them end up back on the market...for whatever reason, sometimes a lot sooner than what we had thought. If you paid legitimate W-machine money for an undocumented car, you are now in a position of trying to justify and sell your high priced car to a very skeptical crowd. I have personally seen a number of sellers in this position get very frustrated and take a real beating when they finally have to let their car go for a lot less than they expected.
This is a very plain and simple and to the point philosophy concerning these particular cars. And again, this is just my opinion. But this way of looking at it has worked well for me.
When I am inspecting a particular 1970 or 1971 “W31 or W30” and determining its value for either myself or for someone else, if the seller cannot provide an original Lansing Broadcast Card or GM of Canada documentation that authenticates the seller’s claim of the car being a real W31 or W30, then I consider that car to be a standard Cutlass or 442. If the car has no Broadcast Card or GM of Canada documentation, but the car has some correct ORIGINAL W-machine parts on it, then I will ad the value of those parts onto the value of the car.
The reason I do this is because no matter our initial long term plans for any car we acquire, eventually the vast majority of them end up back on the market...for whatever reason, sometimes a lot sooner than what we had thought. If you paid legitimate W-machine money for an undocumented car, you are now in a position of trying to justify and sell your high priced car to a very skeptical crowd. I have personally seen a number of sellers in this position get very frustrated and take a real beating when they finally have to let their car go for a lot less than they expected.
This is a very plain and simple and to the point philosophy concerning these particular cars. And again, this is just my opinion. But this way of looking at it has worked well for me.
February 19th, 2015, 06:11 PM
#26
Lansing built
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Grand Ledge, MI
Posts: 3,227
Here are the pictures. Harmonic appears to be too thin by my eyes, again no picture of the hydromatic tag! Cowl tag shows TR 930 (33687)=buckets and I also noticed date code has no zero before the month, any one has seen one that way? It looks to be not molested by my eyes
I see boxed rear control arms, sway bar and non power front disc brakes which seems to be right. But all this could have been pilfered and bolted on early on.
With no documentation, to many red flags. I would not be plunking down the kinda of monies requested.
http://sunvalleyautosales.zenfolio.c...d6a0#h29fa099a
Pat
15_zps5461ddaf.jpg
compared to this photo from the angle?
I see boxed rear control arms, sway bar and non power front disc brakes which seems to be right. But all this could have been pilfered and bolted on early on.
With no documentation, to many red flags. I would not be plunking down the kinda of monies requested.
http://sunvalleyautosales.zenfolio.c...d6a0#h29fa099a
Pat
15_zps5461ddaf.jpg
compared to this photo from the angle?
Last edited by 1970cs; February 20th, 2015 at 04:59 PM.
February 20th, 2015, 09:19 AM
#29
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Location: Fort Pierce, FL
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The ad calls it Cortez Silver, but I do not have a 71 paint chart. I used to own a 1969 Corvette in Cortez Silver. Did Oldsmobile call it Cortez Silver in 1971 also, or was it Silver Pewter Iridescent like 1972?
February 20th, 2015, 06:23 PM
#34
Lansing built
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Grand Ledge, MI
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No Scot, I am sorry if I misled everyone, that was comparing that real one to the one on the in question.
Again, they do a good job with videos and photos, but still will not go out their way to get the pictures I requested!!!!
I guess a couple of photos is not worth $30K
But I found this on ebay (un-related subject) my prior major hobby! I don't know which one the price scares me more.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Topps-M...item35e4d77ed6
Again, they do a good job with videos and photos, but still will not go out their way to get the pictures I requested!!!!
I guess a couple of photos is not worth $30K
But I found this on ebay (un-related subject) my prior major hobby! I don't know which one the price scares me more.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Topps-M...item35e4d77ed6
Last edited by 1970cs; February 20th, 2015 at 07:16 PM.
February 20th, 2015, 06:57 PM
#35
"Car"mudgeon
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Perry, GA
Posts: 5,191
Oh okay Pat. My bad. It does appear to be blue underneath the Platinum on both sides of the trunk though. But that doesn't help or hurt since he isn't claiming original paint.
Anywho would this be the 1/4" return fuel line above the fuel line?
Anywho would this be the 1/4" return fuel line above the fuel line?
February 21st, 2015, 07:31 AM
#37
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Location: Colorado - Front Range
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VIN Stamp
That picture of the VIN derivative on the block looks like the block was painted red previously. I have a '68 Toro 455 on a stand in my garage that is original-paint red. Hmm..?
Last edited by BackInTheGame; February 21st, 2015 at 07:36 AM. Reason: add pic.
February 21st, 2015, 08:35 AM
#38
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Battle Creek, Michigan
Posts: 2,236
Stamped
I too agree on the pad stamping. With numbers showing red in the stamp imprints mean was painted as a bare block, before repainted gold. Hmm
Also note the 3 groove pulley on WP, not correct on W31( AFAIK)
And well said Ken, not enough to disprove but certainly enough circumstantial to cast a big shadow.
Brett
Also note the 3 groove pulley on WP, not correct on W31( AFAIK)
And well said Ken, not enough to disprove but certainly enough circumstantial to cast a big shadow.
Brett
February 22nd, 2015, 05:04 AM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 7
Here is my opinion on "W-31 real or clone?"
When I am inspecting a particular 1970 or 1971 “W31 or W30” and determining its value for either myself or for someone else, if the seller cannot provide an original Lansing Broadcast Card or GM of Canada documentation that authenticates the seller’s claim of the car being a real W31 or W30, then I consider that car to be a standard Cutlass or 442. If the car has no Broadcast Card or GM of Canada documentation, but the car has some correct ORIGINAL W-machine parts on it, then I will ad the value of those parts onto the value of the car.
The reason I do this is because no matter our initial long term plans for any car we acquire, eventually the vast majority of them end up back on the market...for whatever reason, sometimes a lot sooner than what we had thought. If you paid legitimate W-machine money for an undocumented car, you are now in a position of trying to justify and sell your high priced car to a very skeptical crowd. I have personally seen a number of sellers in this position get very frustrated and take a real beating when they finally have to let their car go for a lot less than they expected.
This is a very plain and simple and to the point philosophy concerning these particular cars. And again, this is just my opinion. But this way of looking at it has worked well for me.
When I am inspecting a particular 1970 or 1971 “W31 or W30” and determining its value for either myself or for someone else, if the seller cannot provide an original Lansing Broadcast Card or GM of Canada documentation that authenticates the seller’s claim of the car being a real W31 or W30, then I consider that car to be a standard Cutlass or 442. If the car has no Broadcast Card or GM of Canada documentation, but the car has some correct ORIGINAL W-machine parts on it, then I will ad the value of those parts onto the value of the car.
The reason I do this is because no matter our initial long term plans for any car we acquire, eventually the vast majority of them end up back on the market...for whatever reason, sometimes a lot sooner than what we had thought. If you paid legitimate W-machine money for an undocumented car, you are now in a position of trying to justify and sell your high priced car to a very skeptical crowd. I have personally seen a number of sellers in this position get very frustrated and take a real beating when they finally have to let their car go for a lot less than they expected.
This is a very plain and simple and to the point philosophy concerning these particular cars. And again, this is just my opinion. But this way of looking at it has worked well for me.
