scott_442

Passed this car along the freeway on the way back from Carlisle last weekend and of course, had to pull off and take a look. Owner claims it's a real 442, 4 speed but...bad news coming...has a chevy 350 in it. Said he pulled the shell out of a junkyard many years ago and it did not have a motor in it. Car looks pretty decent but definitely needs tlc. Not a rust bucket that I could tell..decent paint, etc. He is asking 10K but said it needs to go so might be a bargain for somebody. I think the prod numbers were pretty low on these cars. I have a pic on my phone and sellers contact number for anyone interested. Or you could contact me and I'll tell you what I saw.

Car was located on the MD/PA line.

Allan R

In 65 the 442 was an option, and it was actually well recieved by the market. A total of 25,003 were built and they were available on all 1965 f85 models:
Cutlass Sports Coupe
Standard Club Coupe
Cutlass Convertible
Cutlass Holiday coupe

It would need to have a 400CID though to make it a 442, and the cowl tag would need the letter V in column 5 to validate the 442 option. With a Chevy engine, it's not a real 442.

In 1965 442 stood for 400 CID, 4 barrel and dual exhaust.

scott_442

The restoration guide that I have says there were only 1,695 4-speed 442 convertibles in 65. A little over 5%...pretty rare if you ask me but I'm not buying so doesn't matter and I'm fully aware that rare doesn't mean $$$$$. But, for someone looking for a home for that 400 that's been laying around the garage...might be worth a look.

Allan R

I see you've got a picture of it posted now. The guy who owned it sure liked putting chevy adornment on it. I can just hear the conversation at the local car show...

Nice ride, what is it?
Its an original 442 chevelle convertible with the rare/optional cowl induction hood.
Never heard of that.
Yup, one of chev's better kept secrets. It's a real performer and head turner
Woooww, you wanna sell it???
Sure - show me yer money....

Seriously - the car can be brought back to what it was originally with a period correct engine and trim items, with some time and $$. Too bad you don't have a pic of that cowl tag. It's pretty easy to clone some of these older cars.

scott_442

I hear ya...chevy rallies also! You're right about the cowl tag. I should have gotten that but honestly I hadn't talked to the guy yet when I was looking and it was in his back yard along the freeway and I was a little leary of getting shot or attacked by a bunch of pit bulls so I took one pic and scrambled back to the car and then called him.

Anyway, only thing I can say is the 442 dash emblems and those on the quarters looked as though they had been there 50 yrs! Assuming it is 'real', and even with the chebby motor and assuming the rest is solid and it runs and drives good, that car has to be worth $7500 does it not??

Allan R

IDK, having a body is one thing, but the driveline is another. And, it all hinges on whether it's a 442 as claimed. There's a huge difference in price point comparing the Cutlass 4 speed and 442 4 speed. 442 badging is not hard to acquire and attach.

Other things to consider are the condition of the frame and floor pans which were also unseen. Might be a gem in the rough or a turd wearing lipstick.

Sampson

Interesting looking car Scott! I would love to own one of these. 65 was a great year and under appreciated today in my opinion. How was the Carlisle trip?

Koda

Here's my thoughts, and I'm cool if you want to discuss and disagree my conclusion. Forgone conclusion, the cowl tag proves if the car was a 442. However, being pre-68, the car could never be numbers matching outside of the protectoplate and the engine serial number from the head being on there, which most people don't have.

For instance, I don't have mine for my 67, yet the similar weathered nature of the car, and AN appropriate engine in there leads me to believe it's the original engine.

On this car, obviously, a replacement engine would not be the original engine, but if you got a E block 400 and a pair of B heads, you could make AN original engine for it, and you could say it's original, except when selling it, of course.

If it were closer and I had less projects, I'd be interested, for a few grand less.

Edit: What Henry said. He's correct, I'm not.

66400

TK-65

Only Lansing built 442s will have 4V on the cowl tag. Not all 65 442s were built in Lansing. Fremont cars have no codes on the tags that refer to option W29. So all of them do NOT have 4V on the cowl tag.

Since when does anybody validate a car by the engine it currently has? If it didnt have an engine in it would you be sure its not a 442? Im sorry but to call this car a fake because it has a Chevy engine in it is ridiculous.

Allan R

Sorry Jasen, I had the V in the wrong column. I wasn't saying the car was 'fake' based on the engine. I do like Henry's comment about the engine. It would take some of the question marks out of the equation if the cowl tag showed Lan and the 442 V option though. Didn't know that Freemont 65's didn't have the V option code on the tag. So if it was a Lansing car with no V, it would be.......another nice car dressed up like a 442????

I can think of lots of guys who would argue your comment, especially when the engine VIN derivative matches the cars VIN. I also realize that I'm applying your comment very literally.

scott_442

Here are 2 keys to the mystery as to whether or not the 442 is 'real' for those that have a burning desire to know:

717-873-2405 cell
301-447-2003 home

oldstata

Yes Allen, Fremont cars didn't have the 4v on the cowl tag. And if it's a true 4 speed the frame is the same for 442 as it had a beefer frame and adjustable rear upper links. If memory serves me depending on 10or12 bolt on witch location factory out the upper links so simply see if it has the frame won't work either.

This would need to be a car I would want to see the build sheet or protecto plate/book

Seems like a nice car and If the body is in good shape 10k isn't bad

TK-65

The topic of 4V and Fremont has been talked about before. By myself, yourself and others.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post611686

Only 4 months ago.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post660992

This is the third time you have called an early 442 fake without actually knowing anything about the car you are talking about.

aliensatemybuick

:d

Allan R

After re-reading those posts? I don't think so. Mistakes made aren't intentional, but you seem to take this very personally. Is this about the car or is this about me? If it's about me, send me a PM. It doesn't need to be a public spectacle.