Vader

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oldsmobile-4...US_Cars_Trucks

Stefano

The fender wells look mint!

Vader

This would be an interesting gamble. Car looks legit, but he says he has no documentation. I'm guessing it's in the car, just never found.
If it has the W27, that alone could be worth 10-15K these days..
But, if it's a clown car, with w30 parts, it might be a break even proposition by the time the auction ends.
The deck lid inside rust scares me. That may be an indicator there's more then meets the eye. Red wells look liked they've been clear coated.
Hmmmmmm

vette442

If I were the seller and had that prior owner information back to the 1970s, I'd be all over that to gather as much info, old pics, a notarized statement, or whatever I could to document that it was a real W30.

I just sent out letters to the suspected original and second owners of my latest acquisition based on web searches of names and towns from old paperwork, as well as matches that fit into the right age group. Keeping my fingers crossed for a couple calls, letters or emails soon....

Terry

stevengerard

looks good to me even if not a W30 you have the expensive parts to sell off and end up with a nice looking fixable 4 speed 442. If it s the real deal its a decent value even at the 24k its at now

dc2x4drvr

Says he installed a rebuilt carb..the frame looks very rusty.

Olds442redberet

I find it hard to call it a clown car if all of the components are correct for a 1970 442 and the vin is correct as well. Aren't most restorations just the sum of parts from different donor cars combined with new parts provided by the numerous venders importing cheap Chinese parts?

I bought a really nice clone last years. It was well done with all the correct 442 components. Had it not been rusted out it would have been a desirable car, even as a clone. The builder built it back in the eighties with all original Olds parts.

My current car is a hodgepodge of parts from different year models. Saying I get everything needed from 1970 cutlass and 442 models, will it still be a clown car after I collect and assemble it?

I understand that documentation would add greatly to the value of this particular car, but it still has that very special, very expensive W27 rear end in it.

anthonyP

It seems the trunk lid is from another car, as the lock trim and number spacing is incorrect.

jonesolds442

I noticed how the banner advertisement says it's "matching numbers", but in the bottom Q and A section, the seller answers with "...the engine is a 69."

Fishy...

507OLDS

If I were going to list it,I would comb that car,to find any paperwork.If I didn't find any,then I would say that there is none.
That trunklid is from a 70 Cutlass,and it is shot.The gas tank is shiny enough to see your reflection,but the frame looks like it's been dipped in salt.I would expect the rearend,or at least the aluminum to be weathered more like the frame,if it were all original.
It is a cool car though,with some nice pieces.If I found it full of filler,I would just cut it up & do everyone a favor.

cdoering

Seems as if everyone is speculating with out facts. I called the owner and spoke with him. Here are the facts:
Engine is from a 69 442 with Julian date 36
Trans is an M-21 with matching vin to car 344870M235848
Trans is original to car (w-27 rear end), TB9780. Tag on rear end is 1234762KA
Carb number is 7040256 original to car
dist is electronic
Heads - original to car 404 438
aluminum intake original to car
has factory tic toc tac

Needs: trunk lid and full trunk, new grills (has cracks), head liner has 2 small holes, and needs a paint job.

cowl hood color is 10 (white) and interior is TR930 with a build date of 01A.

The owner also took out seats, door panels, carpet and dropped tank to locate build sheet (nothing found), the previous owners have dies and no further research can be done. Car was bought close to Dayton OH 7 years ago. Car has been in storage the whole time since he bought it. He bought it in a 3 car deal.

507OLDS

People will always speculate about a car with no documentation,even if it has some or all of the legit parts. The KA transmission tag is correct for all 70 Cutlass/442/W30/W31 with the M21 transmission.You could get the W27 rear in anything,but more likely ordered in a more expensive car,like a W-car.The car does look legit,but if you compare it with one that has documentation,you will see the difference in price.

Stefano

(w-27 rear end), TB9780.....this is a center section casting # from the forward facing drivers side. Rear end code is outward facing/towards the rear passengers side axle tube.

Vader

Chris, no disrespect, but without papers, there's no real W30 "facts", just what the guy says. All the parts are obtainable. I think the car is a legit w30, but without papers.. its a 442 w/w30 parts. That's fine for most people, except if you want top dollar when you sell.

Team Sho-Air

Couldnt agree more

Stefano

My first experience with "Fake" W-30s was in the 1980s. Not clones but all out fraudulent Fakes. Many of the parts were still available through dealerships and NOS parts at swap meets were not uncommon.

W-30s have been one of the most Faked up Muscle cars as a percentage of production ever.

I too did contact this seller. I mean here is another potential real deal W-Machine, with great options.

If the car were closer, we would have gone to inspect it.

The car has no documented history at this point. The eBay seller bought it in a package deal from an estate. He knew virtually nothing about Oldsmobiles.

So in essence here is a car which just popped up out of thin air at this point.

It will be interesting to see where this goes.

As far as making statement about what is or is not original to this car, that generally can not be done with a car which has been apart and restored.

Fake "F" heads, actual castings have been available for years.

Fake W-27 Housings have been available for years, but usually sold as originals.

Repro Intake manifolds, fender wells and other parts have been available for over a decade.

Where do all these parts go?

jstrits

Who was selling fake w-27 housings?

tm70olds

How does the heads 404 and 438 make them original to the car and the w-27 tb9780 tag 123476ka make it original to car. Just asking about this car. I would like to know.Thanks

Stefano

They are not listed in any parts catalogue, you need to know the secret handshake in order to get one. Or buy a car which the it was put it under.

They have been sold as authentic original GM parts.

It's not a very complex casting to have had reproduced and most of the bolt on parts are the same as the Iron Rear.

anthonyP

Was not the '70 W-27 option available only on the Cutlass & 442 W-machines?

Has anyone ever seen a '70 W-27 rear carrier ordered as an over the counter option?

Like the W-25 hood & air cleaner, W-30/W-31 intake, and W-35 rear spoiler, the aluminum rear carrier must have been very expensive if ordered through the parts department - anyone know the cost?

Also, off the subject somewhat, since the 1972 Assembly Manual shows the W-35 spoiler option cancelled for that model year, but seeing many '72 442's & Cutlasses with a spoiler, has anyone ever seen a build sheet or window sticker showing that a spoiler was installed at the factory?

anthonyP

Wow. Is that your W-27 carrier in the crate? Is that how they shipped the carrier in the day, and do you know how much it cost at the time?

Thanks,
Anthony

stevengerard

original price was 157.00 pretty darn cheap even in the day

tm70olds

I owned that car in the mid to late 80s. It is interesting how cars change over the years. On this car there were three things that were added to it from when I owned it. Interesting.

anthonyP

So, was the '70 W-27 carrier available as an over-the-counter purchase for someone off the street, or only for warranty replacements and possibly by Oldsmobile sanctioned racers?

gearheads78

So the exact car that was on EBAY? So what was added? You can't drop that bomb and talk away.

Stefano

Are you 100% certain that this was indeed an NOS over the counter service replacement and not just an assembly placed in a wooden crate in order to create the illusion?

442Fred

I have one that was removed from a very original 71 W30 that was an over the counter rear end ordered from Big 2 Oldsmobile in Mesa Arizona. It was removed around 1988 out of a bittersweet/white vinyl top car that was loaded with options. For whatever this info is worth.

tm70olds

Gearheads78,
I ran across it on Ebay and thought it looked a little like a car I owned back in the 80s. I read the description and thought that it probably wasn't. I have a few copies of titles of cars that I owned and thought I would check anyway and sure enough the vin was the same. I contacted the seller and told him I had owned it and what it did and didn't have when I had it. I send him a copy of the title along with the registration card and pictures of the car. What he did with the info was up to him. All I want to say is it was different than when I owned. With out paper work and documentation it is just another undocumented w-30

Stefano

I went to look at a similar set up here in Illinois a while back, before it was eventually sold on eBay, if my memory serves correct. The seller wanted $20,000.00 and I believe that eBay later showed it sold for $15,000.00

There was nothing presented for that particular rear at that time to prove that it was indeed a NOS rear.

The patina of the wood crate did look Vintage, but there was NO dealer tag or shipping info and of course the seller was not going to open up the crate, at that time.

Stefano

So why the big secret? What was added? More important was it out fitted as a W-30 when you purchased it?

tm70olds

It didnt have f heads, w-27 rear end or the spoiler. The car had been repainted before i bought it. I bought it from a car dealer . back then it didnt matter if it was real or not i wasnt into that type of thing. so I dont know if it was real or not. It had 88,000 some miles on the title when i bought it and I drove it. The seller had it at 89,000 some miles . hard to believe but could be possible.

Stefano

Thanks,

Interesting, when I spoke to the eBay seller, he said it had an automatic trunk release and when you popped the trunk it rose to 1/2 way up, which would indicate that it had the correct spoiler tension spring in place.

I'm not trying to be smart, but did you know enough to look at the rear end back then?

tm70olds

Hi Sefano, not a problem.I bought my first olds cutlass in 73 and in 76 I bought a 70 w-31 and raced it at Nieta Raceway in Iowa a few years then bought a 70 442. I was pretty familiar with olds. This car I bought in 86 . I bought it from a car dealer. It had a fairly fresh paint job and I cant remember if they did it or the owner before.I wasn't into numbers thing it was a nice looking car and that is why I bought it. I have pictures along with the copy of title and registration card.
The pictures do show that it didn't have the wing and I know that it didn't have the f heads. as far as the w-27 that would have been something that I would have remembered. but there is always that chance. It could be a true w-30 but I am only telling what I know. I am still drag racing a 70 olds and will continue.