ScottoW31

Cool car. Someone will get a great project. Good luck with the sale.

Stefano

Thanks.

We did find the original sport mirrors and some GM door edge guards which may have been original to the car as well. It has the trunk light also.

Stefano

Is is possible that someone prior to 1977 or so took apart another W-30 and added all the parts to a 4 speed same color 442 4 speed. Sure that is possible scenario. How likely is that premise? Not very likely.

When you take into account the history of the car as well as the two prior owners who had it since the 70s stating that it is and was a W-30, that changes things quite a bit.

Our certification is stamp of approval, based on many things to include over 30 years experience working with these cars. I bought and worked on my first Olds when I was 16 and that was a while ago. While we certainly do not claim to know everything, we do have a broad knowledge base with over 100 years cumulative experience with Muscle Cars here at NicKey.

If you think we provided a certification on this W-30 as just a means of financial gain...you are missing the mark. The car is worth more parted out than my asking price.

Price out a 1970 Lansing VIN shell with great floors and trunk, with original buckets seat mounts and original 4 speed tunnel and good title and you'll see what I mean.

We thought this W-Machine significant enough to call it out as only 1,032 were ever produced and not many came loaded up with the options such as this one.

There are not many entities who will "certify" a vehicle and the individuals who choose to do so are few and far between. I believe that we have provide a valuable service to the industry as well as the hobby of collector cars.

Our certifications are recognized by many of the national auction houses, major concours events, museums, private collectors, as well as National level shows. Do we expect everyone to agree with our business plan? Of course not.

TK-65

This car is far from loaded. Power steering, seat and windows does not make a loaded car. Im sorry you can spin this all you want but the bottom line is you have a basket case 70 442 that "may" have been a W30. And for the money its going to take to bring this car back id have to have more than a stamp of approval from Nickey. Something that nobody on this board has ever heard of.

Whats more possible than your premise is someone walked into the local Olds dealer and bought the W30 parts to add to his 442. Certainly possible, and likely happened to a number of cars.

Sorry for mucking up your for sale ad, but some of your hyperbole needs to be addressed. Good luck with the sale.

Stefano

I stand by all of my statements, including the subjective "loaded".

Does it have every option, no I did not state that.

This W-30 has lots of options which appear to be factory.

The fact that "you" have never heard of us has no bearing on my advertisement.

BTW, the parts counter guy you conjured up while dialing in your "tin hat" helped remove all the extra sound deadener and applied the W-30 markings as well as paid the prior to owners to provide false statements. He even switched / removed the power brake booster.

I will be more than happy to compare notes as well as our respective track records. We have never certified a Bogus car and don't plan to start with this one.

How about we stop with the hypotheticals and you prove to me that it is not a W-30?

You are correct on one point, it's my basket case and I'm proud of it!

TK-65

I didnt say that happened, just that its more probable than someone parting one car to build another back in the 1970s.

It was possible to load these cars up with enough options to fill up two window stickers. 7 or 8 options isnt loaded.

Ive heard of you, read magazines with your cars in them, and seen you at shows before. This is the first time Ive read about you certifying W30s. Never before have I seen a basket case W30 for sale with Nickeys stamp of approval.

This car has the same issue as yours, except owner couldnt sell it as a W30 because of no documentation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221310411462...84.m1555.l2649

1969w3155

Even though stick shift W's came with manual brakes in 1970, you could get a 442 equipped the same way.

Stefano

Gave the rear a quick tire spin to see that it was a POSI and check out the gear ratio. We craked the rear open and I would say that was the first time it was ever opened up, IMO.

GM Ring Gear has ratio and date code, pinion has part number.

Stefano

Cool inspection markings, at least I think so.

Some guy(s) buttoned up this rear over 40 years ago and here we are today, inspecting his/their work.

dnmfranco

Brian fascinating info, always love learning something new on here , in 69 as well non w cars had tm rears as well. But could you tell me what is a ka m-21 just curious never heard of that, of course ka heads ty Dean

junior supercar

KA - 2 letter code painted I believe in yellow on the top of the case to designate application. I don't have the breakdown of all the codes with me at the moment, but the M-20 obviously has a 2 letter code also

507OLDS

KA is the correct 2-letter code for a 1970 M21. The transmissions had different codes for different years,and each had a 2-letter code designating what transmission it was. There were other codes like WB WD WO,etc. I know Buick also used the KA code. Not sure what other ones did.

Did you know that some of the 71 Buick GS cars came from the factory with a 71 W30 TH400,instead of the correctly coded Buick TH400? That is fact.

dnmfranco

Okay thanks guys will have to learn the codes for 8s and 9s. Didn't realize other than vin numbers and ect. that these codes were present. Definitely did not know that about Buick GS cars. Funny know a guy who has a 71 455 GS will have to rub that into him.

Stefano

That is correct. Buick did use an Oldsmobile spec OW coded trans for early Stage I cars. That code became correct and was reflected on Buick documentation.

Stefano

W-30 project on eBay now.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oldsmobile-4...US_Cars_Trucks

glide65

This looks like a graet start to a greater build. I wish I had this good of a starting point! You probably never counted on being called a liar or cheat when you posted this. I hate it for you. That is why I rarely ever post. Too many keyboard commandos! Good luck with the sale, I really is a nice solid start.

Stefano

Thanks for the support : )

Stefano

Here are some pics of the factory hood markings. An "X" marks the spot and the date of 11-3 seems to line up well with the build date of the car.

rcktdoc

This is a true W30 I had been trying to buy this car for about 15 yrs. I know the person that brought it back from Ark. back in 77.Car was taken to a body shop to be painted and shop Lost or stole the red fender wells.

Greg

Stefano

Thanks for the info.

We have communicated with individuals who have known this W-30 since the 1970s and have found that the original drivetrain might be obtainable.

Vader

If that's the case, why don't you stop the ebay auction ? I would think that would be a much greater reward then making 3-4 k.. just my opine.

Stefano

"just my opine"

Don't ever recall having asked you for an "opine" on how to run my business or handle my affairs?

But thanks for the advise anyway.

Vader

Don't ever recall asking your permission to post.

dnmfranco

lets get it on lol - now boys

Sampson

Looks like it could be a nice project. Good luck with your sale. Any luck on tracking down the original engine/ tranny?

Stefano

The story is that there was a divorse and the wife sold off the drivetrain, so I'm at the the mercy of the individual who contacted me and provided the info. Good news is that he is a hard core Olds guy and wants to see the drivetrain reunited with the car.

Stay tuned.

sammy

Now that would be very cool!
Staying tuned

Ted

Stefano

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oldsmobile-4...US_Cars_Trucks

anthonyP

Very interesting, never knew that Buick used the W-30 TH400 in their '71 GS455 Stage-1. Was this true with the '72 GS455 Stage-1? Wonder if it had something to do with the '71 GM strike.

Seems '71 and '72 were very interesting years for GM. Also never knew until recently that Oldsmobile was installing Buick rear axle carries in '71 and '72, depending where the 442/Cutlass was manufactured.

According to Brian, all 442's and Cutlasses built in Lansing had the Oldsmobile rear axle carrier, which have the additional oiling passages not found on the Buick carrier. Framingham built cars also had the Oldsmobile axle carriers. Fremont and Arlington built cars had the Buick carrier.

The installation of the W-27 cover for factory orders at the Fremont & Arlington plants were not a problem, according to Brian, since the round W-27 cover on the Buick carrier did not affect anything - though the inside castings on the W-27 were ineffective due to the lack of the additional oiling passages.

I guess Oldsmobile and Buick mutually used each others parts due to the strike. Were all Buick GS455 Stage-1's built at a single plant, not unlike the W-machines, and if not, did all Stage-1's receive the OW transmission, or only those built at specific plants?

507OLDS

The Stage1's all came from the same plant,from what I have been told. Not all 71 Stage 1's got the OW. From what I understand,there was a shortage.

Team Sho-Air

Wow, it’s amazing how nasty some people get, if you don’t want to purchase the car, don’t, but don’t bash a guy for advertising the car and his thoughts.

Stefano feels it is most likely a W30, he believes the evidence is there to support his feelings. He is willing to put his name, and the name of his company on a certification that really means nothing, other than the fact that both he and the company strongly feel it is an actual W30 car.

At the end of the day, does his certification change anything, probably not, but I do respect Stefano and the Nicky organization. They have been around for years and he is extremely knowledgeable about the hobby and his dedication to his company and these cars are unquestioned. I personally respect the fact that he and his company are willing to put their name on deals like this and make a statement.

Furthermore I hope that he can locate the original drivetrain as that would be awesome, in this day of the internet and boards like this; it has become more and more possible to find missing parts, documentation, etc. on these cars. I in fact have been able to find an original build sheet for one of my cars (and paid a ransom for it) as well as the original heads for one of my cars and a bunch of documentation that really helped ad value.

It’s always good to question, and it’s always good to challenge, but neither are good when unnecessary.

Stefano

Team Sho-Air, Thank you for your support.

Regarding Buick Stage 1 cars. We are very familiar with those cars too and have had many over the years both through our business and in my personal collection.

The Code for 70-72 Buick TH400 trans is BB, but for 1971 wherein the OW code was also used. I have never seen or heard of the OW code being used for Buick in late 71 or 72.

The "Strike" has been blamed for many issues, to include the late production start for 1971 W-30s?

It is my understanding that the plant building TH400s had several assembly lines running consecutively and that trans for all GM makes went down these same assembly lines.

The Buicks received their own specific OW tag and OLDs Had their own tags coded OW.

Daverd

The reason for the 71 stage ones using
OW transmissions is that
The transmission plant
Had a fire hence a BB code Buick transmission
Shortage in 1971

wmachine

To further define "late", '71 W30 production basically started in Jan 1971. There was 1 made prior to Nov '70 and 2 made in Dec '70.

stevengerard

there are a couple of Buick OW's sitting around here in Northern Illinois - unfortunately probably forever

Stefano

If the BB coded trans and the OW were built on the same assembly line or at the same plant, how could that affect production of just one Trans?

I have seen / inspected a W-30 built 12 B (Trim Tag) and a Stage I built 12 B (Trim Tag) Both had OW coded transmissions which are believed to be original to the cars. Both trans had correct VIN dirivatives as well as original trans tags. So I don't see the transmissions holding up W-30 production.

Stefano

Kurt,

Thanks for sharing important data/info.

Stefano

This is generally what the non undercaoted / no sound deadner original rear wheel wells of a W-30 look like.

507OLDS

This is also why the W-cars rotted-out pretty good.With no undercoat for protection,they didn't fair well in the elements at all.
Those are the original 70 brake drums. Nice piece to have for detail.

anthonyP

Bit confused - would not the '71 W-30's built before January 1971 been manufactured during the strike?

Correction: Looked up the date of strike and it started on 14/Sep/1970 and ended 67-days later. This would make the December build dates correct, and any late November build date. Not certain if any cars were completed prior to the strike date.