joe_padavano

Yes, but the 68 pie pan is the same. That was just the first photo I grabbed off of Google Images.

allyolds68

For everyone that I've ever met that's owned one, the 68 W31's have been called Ram Rods. Like you said Olds didn't heavily market them because they didn't have to. They were a limited production vehicle that likely sold out before they had to do much marketing. It's interesting that the marketing that was done doesn't even show the Ram Rod 350 on the fenders but obviously when they were produced it had them. I've never denied that the option code for the car was W31 or that it was the first year that the car was produced. What I don't agree with the blanket statement that the 68 W31 Option was called a W31, as it was clearly known in 69. It's much the same as the 68 Turnpike Cruiser (or "Cruising Package" as it was officially known) was option code L-65. I don't hear too many people calling them L-65's.

Diego

Not many cars branded by their RPO code. A certain Camaro and a few Oldsmobiles were one of the few. Sure, Chevy folks may throw out "L78" to signify a car equipped with a certain motor but it was never branded as such; likewise, Pontiac folks don't say "L67" but "Ram Air IV." Perhaps the Ram Rod designation wasn't successful enough for Olds, or they decided to repackage and rebrand it? I don't think calling it a Ram Rod 350 is incorrect, but it's still a W-31 when it comes down to it.

Jonb442

Didn't the '69 W-31 air cleaner decal say Ram Rod 350? I'd agree that the '68 IS a W-31; the package is just about identical between the two years. Calling the '68 a precursor to the '69 is like saying the '68 442 is a precursor to the '69 442.

1969w3155

Yep.

joe_padavano

And while the Chevy-centric automotive press claims that "Z/28" was the first time the RPO code was used as the name of the car (for the 1967 model year), I seem to recall a certain Oldsmobile that did the same in 1966.

Diego

So here's another question for Oldsmodudes:

Do you consider the W-30 to be its own model of sorts? (Ignore the VIN issue)

I don't consider a W-30 to be a separate model, unlike a Z/28. I see the W-30 to be merely an engine upgrade, no different than a Stage 1, Ram Air Pontiac, or LS6.

VikingBlue

I think most are in agreement that in no way is it a separate model, even if you disregard the VIN thing. Just like the Judge, which could be had with either of two motors.

But how about a Hurst Olds ? or Pace Car ? I could be off base but I don't think of those as separate models either...

Diego

Oh boy, here we go again. :laughing:

Aside of me believing the Judge should be treated as a separate model, the H/O most certainly is as well. I see the 1970 pace car as more distinct from the regular 4-4-2 than the W-30 is, but could it be considered a separate model? Certainly not the 1972.

VikingBlue

why a Judge a separate model ? And why Hurst ?

The W30 is a 442 with a hopped up motor and different styling (wing, diff striping).

The Judge and Hurst cars also hopped up motor and different styling. And Hurst cars didn't even leave the factory as such (and i'm sure you don't think Yenko cars are separate models because they didn't leave the the factory as such either).

Diego

I'm not going to go there. That's been discussed to death already.


Oh, so the H/O, with its different paint job, ID badges, and engine, is no different than a 442?

The wing was not standard with the W-30 package. And, previous to 1970, any regular 442 looked the same unless you peeked under the front bumpers.

It's documented that H/Os left the factory with their 455s. And while Yenkos are a dealer-prepped car, they still are COPOs.

VikingBlue

my point was...that if you're considering some examples of a hotter motor and/or different styling as merely a different option and not a stand-alone model, then all other examples of same should be viewed the same.

So if you suggest a Stage 1 (or LS6, or Hemi, etc) is not it's own model but an option on the GS455, then I don't see how you consider a Judge to be a separate model, or a Hurst a separate model, or a W30 a separate model, etc.

None of the above can be differentiated by VIN relative to the "lesser" vehicle, so I don't see how they could be considered a separate model in any sense.

But like I said...just my opinion.

Diego

Of course the Judge is a different model. :-)

And so is the Hurst/Olds.

I don't see the W-30 being a separate model, but maybe Olds people do, which is why I brought up another tangent.

VikingBlue

I guess you could define what being a separate model entails and then consider cars accordingly...instead of just having a gut feeling about what cars are their own models.

Diego

Do a search on the Judge thread and you'll see.

Allan R

Neither do I. Here's my interpretation. The models that the 442 option could be ordered on were f85/ Cutlass/Cutlass S and Cutlass Supreme until the 442 became a model itself.

Within the 442 model, the W30 wasn't a separate model, it was an upgrade option.

So, while there could be a 442 model, not every 442 was a W30.

In years where the 442 was not a model, the model series determined if 442 and/or W30 was an option. To wit: In 1972, almost any 2 door Cutlass model could be a 442 W29 or W30 (except the CS HT).

Don't know how the 73+ models determined W30, but suspect very much like 72.

Diego

Regardless of whether a 442 package was an upgrade option (1964-67), it's still a 442. The DMV may not think so, but it's still a 442.

allyolds68

Olds had three "models" of the 442. Holiday Coupe, Sports Coupe, and Convertible. H/O has a 344 VIN, right?

Just sayin....

Diego

A bodystyle is not a model.

allyolds68

Says you.

The description specifically says "three bucket seat models"

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/membe...e_20x13_Ad.pdf

Of course, according to Olds, I guess bench seat would be their own models as well

Allan R

Of course it's called a 442. There were enough emblems all over the car saying 442 that even a blind goat could figure that out, and people called it what they saw on the emblem. But in those years, it was a performance OPTION, which was offered on different models. Olds said the 442 emblems were for identification. Doesn't change the fact it could be ordered on an f85, Cutlass or Cutlass Supreme

I looked at a MECUM auction that had original window sticker and POP for a 1967 W30. Guess what the sticker identified the car as? NOT a W30 442. It's called a Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupe. The first option is listed as the 442 package.

Here's also a 66 window sticker. Note the car is NOT listed as a 442, it's a Cutlass Holiday Coupe with the L78 442 OPTION.



All the window stickers for 1968 - 71 442's that I've seen DO list the car as a 442 in the model section - since it was it's own model then.

The whole discussion about whether someone calls the L78 optioned car a 442 or not doesn't bother me. I'm just saying that the 442 identification of the 64-67 '442' is an option based on the model it was built on. The GM window sticker doesn't even identify these cars as 442 models so who cares what DMV says, as long as they get the VIN right. I'd guess that on Bills of Sale for registering Title, dealers would list the car as a 442 regardless of what it showed as a 'model' on the window sticker.

joe_padavano

Yes, for 1968-69. The window sticker even says it's a 442.

Allan R

Also the same for 70/71 442's

joe_padavano

I'm afraid you've lost the thread there, Allan - easy to do since there are about three or four of them here. My comment was in response to Mike's question about the H/Os. Here's a recap:

From Post #53

To which Mike responded in Post #58:

To which I responded in Post #62:

There were no H/Os in 70-71 and the 72 carries a Supreme VIN.

Allan R

Ok, got it now. I thought it was in reference to which 3 442 body series it came in when it was it's own model from 68-71.

So why not throw another branding iron into the fire? Would have been nice to see the 442 continue as it's own model since it appears to be a very popular and identifiable car.