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Old January 14th, 2007, 09:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question 1970 F85 W31

Hi,

I'm a new member and have a question that I would appreciate some feedback from some knowledgeable Olds experts.

I have a 1970 Olds F85 W31 car that is completely disassembled ready for a body off restoration. The car is Astro blue with a blue interior. The bench seat interior is in nice shape. Overall the car is in nice condition as well. Everything is bagged, marked and organized. The car is not a numbers matching vehicle. It features the rally gauge/tach package, Sport 4 spoke steering wheel, posi, 4 speed and dual sport mirrors. The car has some local race history as well. The 1972 block has a fresh rebuild and features the correct internals for a 1970 325 HP W31, heads and intake. Overall the car is solid with only the lips on the rear quarter panels bubbling from a re-paint years ago. I have purchased new wheel lips for the back quarters. The floor, trunk, doors, everything is solid with no rust. With only 207 of these made in 1970, but my question is what's this car worth now in it's current dissembled condition and after a body off restoration? I don't want to bury myself in the car so some advice would be welcome. Thanks.

Last edited by mono-plane; October 5th, 2009 at 12:31 PM.
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Old January 14th, 2007, 12:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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yeah i've always heard the only way to make money in car restoration is if you do it for some one else. but if its worth it to you and you plan on keeping it you could check ebay or the nada guide.
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Old January 14th, 2007, 01:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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W31 are definately more rare than W30s and F85 W31s are uber-rare.

Internet valuations aren't worth the paper they are printed on. (get it?)

You need someone to lay eyes on it. You don't say where you are (PLEASE FOLKS...PUT YOUR LOCATION IN THE PROFILE!) so I can't recommend anybody close to you.

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Old January 14th, 2007, 04:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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And, welcome to our site...
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Old January 14th, 2007, 07:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the welcome and the advice. It's great to be here. I have alot to learn about my Olds, so any advice is welcome.

Barry
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Old January 14th, 2007, 07:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm located in Winnipeg, MB. Canada.
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Old January 14th, 2007, 08:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Here's a good place to start:
http://www.oldsclub.ca/

I'm sure they can recommend someone close to you.

And yes...WELCOME!

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Old January 14th, 2007, 08:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks on both counts C.J.

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Old January 19th, 2007, 10:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hello and welcome to the site! You have good taste in cars! I have a 70 F-85 W-31 also as well as several 78-81 Malibu 2 doors and parts. If you want to sell the W-31, let me know, I would be interested. Enjoy the site and the hobby,

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Old January 20th, 2007, 03:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I Chad, thanks for the compliment. You have pretty good taste in cars yourself! I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the W31 yet. I guess that's why I joined this group, to find out what these cars are worth and go from there.

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Old January 26th, 2007, 07:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hey cool car id be interested in it aswell or if you need some fenders i have some NOS ones let me know good luck Gordon.
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Old January 26th, 2007, 09:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Hi Gordon,

Thanks for saying hello. How much did you want for ther NOS fenders? Are these the rear quarter panels or front fenders?
I still haven't come up with an approx. value of my W31, but do you have some idea of what it might be worth??

Barry
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Old October 18th, 2007, 11:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Valuation

The best way (in my opinion) to get a ball-park estimate of a car's value without hiring an appraiser is to look up the vehicle in the "Collector Car Price Guide" published by Cars & Parts magazine. I have been in the collector car hobby for over 25 years and have found this publication to be pretty accurate. Of course, for the most accurate prediction, hire a professional classic car appraiser to come see the vehicle. They are not as expensive as you think (typically $75-$225 US) and can give you an accurate valuation. Best of luck!

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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mono-plane View Post
Hi,

I'm a new member and have a question that I would appreciate some feedback from some knowledgeable Olds experts.

I have a 1970 Olds F85 W31 car that is completely disassembled ready for a body off restoration. The car is Astro blue with a blue interior. The bench seat interior is in nice shape. Overall the car is in nice condition as well. Everything is bagged, marked and organized. The car is not a numbers matching vehicle. It features the rally gauge/tach package, Sport 4 spoke steering wheel, posi, 4 speed and dual sport mirrors. The car has some local race history as well. The 1972 block has a fresh rebuild and features the correct internals for a 1970 325 HP W31, heads and intake. Overall the car is solid with only the lips on the rear quarter panels bubbling from a re-paint years ago. I have purchased new wheel lips for the back quarters. The floor, trunk, doors, everything is solid with no rust. With only 207 of these made in 1970, but my question is what's this car worth now in it's current dissembled condition and after a body off restoration? I don't want to bury myself in the car so some advice would be welcome. Thanks.
Update on my 1970 F85 W31 coupe. I have the GM of Canada documentation proving the car is the real deal. Still have not started on restoring the car, but now two years later, wondering where the market value of this ex-race car is? The color is #25 Astro Blue with a #10 Porcelain White Stripe and #903 Blue Interior according to the documentation. It also shows the following info:

Production Plant: Lansing, MI
Shipping Date: April 27, 1970
Model Number: 33277 - F85 - 2 dr pillar coupe
Engine: 350 CID 325 HP 4bbl Force Air Rocket V8
Dealer: Holiday Chev Olds Ltd.
Winnipeg, MB
Number Imported
for sale in Canada
(Same Model No. only) 641

Option Description

D35 Sport Mirrors (Left remote, right manual)
FE2 Suspension: Touring Ride and Handling
G80 Limited Slip Diff
M21 Transmission: 4-speed manual-close ratio
N10 Dual Exhaust
N34 Steering Wheel: Custom Sport
N66 Super Stock II Wheels
PK5 Tire: G70 X 14 White Letter
T44 Interior Operated Hood Lock
U21 Rocket Rally Pac
U63 Radio: AM Pushbutton
V01 Radiator: Heavy Duty
V48 Engine Coolant - Increased Protection (Antifreeze)
W31 W-Machine Package, Force Air Rocket 350 V8
W84 Additional Fuel For Delivery
Y68 Custom Appearance Package

W31 W-Machine Package includes: 325 HP Rocket 350 Engine; manual disc brakes; (W/25) forced air induction system; (D35) sport mirrors; (FE2) Rallye Suspension; (G80) anti spin rear axle; (N10) dual exhaust; (PK5) G70 x 14 tires; (Y73) paint stripes; M/14, M/20, M/21 or M/38 transmission required. Not available with CC/60, J/50, JL/2, K/30, L/72 or Y/72.

If they only made 207 of these, how many were actually sold in Canada??? Maybe 20??

Anyhow, I thought this info might be of interest to you F85 W31 people.

Barry
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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Interesting... we usually don't get people that return to our website after a hiatus of a few years.

If you intend to restore the car because it is "unique" and want to get alot of money for it then you will be disappointed. There are very few cars one can restore and sell for a boat load of money. The cars you see like this are the ones that usually sell on Barret Jackson.

IMHO, restore the car for your enjoyment, don't worry about what other people think. True, your car might be rare but it is only desireable for someone who wants it.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 12:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Barry, I am disappointed that you don't have a blue-striped car!

However, I don't think the white stripe is necessarily Porcelain White stripe.

I've attached another Canadian car too.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1970w30stripecolors.jpg (69.7 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg 1970CanadianDocsW31.jpg (25.1 KB, 64 views)
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Old October 5th, 2009, 01:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Interesting... we usually don't get people that return to our website after a hiatus of a few years.

If you intend to restore the car because it is "unique" and want to get alot of money for it then you will be disappointed. There are very few cars one can restore and sell for a boat load of money. The cars you see like this are the ones that usually sell on Barret Jackson.

IMHO, restore the car for your enjoyment, don't worry about what other people think. True, your car might be rare but it is only desireable for someone who wants it.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 01:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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That's one spin on the issue, the other is before I start any restoration, I want an idea of the current value to make a game plan. I had a computer die and bought a new one, so wasn't receiving any new posts, plus I thought that I would share the GM documentation info. I know that it's not readily available south of the border.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 01:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Barry, I am disappointed that you don't have a blue-striped car!

However, I don't think the white stripe is necessarily Porcelain White stripe.

I've attached another Canadian car too.
Here's my GM documentation.
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File Type: jpg EmailImage.jpg (43.6 KB, 94 views)
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Old October 5th, 2009, 01:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I have had a discussion with someone on this, and the stripes are not necessarily based on the usual paint codes. For example, look at the stripe color and then the Canadian docs I posted - does it look like Astro Blue?
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Old October 5th, 2009, 01:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I'm not sure, as I don't know if my car was re-painted years ago in the correct color?
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Old October 5th, 2009, 01:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
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It doesn't matter what your car is or was - look up the paint formula for Astro Blue, then look up the formula for the stripes and tell me what you find.

Or I can save you the trouble and tell you Astro Blue ain't that color.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 01:48 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I've noticed that before, Diego, that the stripe colors are (always?) referred to as a basic color, and not coded or related to a specific "shade". Meaning as "white" stripe as opposed to a "provincial white" (or #10) stripe. These GM Canada docs are the only place I recall seeing this kind of reference. I would have to say the GM Canada could have some incorrect info being passed on?
So we need to see some original stripes to verify what was really done?

Last edited by wmachine; October 5th, 2009 at 02:01 PM.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 01:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Thanks wmachine, you seem to have the best solution. I know next to nothing about these cars that's why I joined this forum. I can only go by what I have received from GM Services of Canada. If that info is wrong, then I'm further in the dark.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 04:44 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I owned a 1970 Cutlass "S" post Coupe for 35 years....Bought it new, actually.
I am sorry to say that they are not worth near as much as their 442 cousins.
Look at the price of a W-30.....The W-31's ,although rarer, mine was one 116, are not bringing nearly what their big block cousins bring......

Then you say it is not numbers matching.....To me that makes this just another f85 and the value diminishes from there.... In bags full of parts I don't think it is going to bring much....You might get more by parting it out, The Hood, the original carb, the balancer are bringing BIG bucks...

Just something to think about
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Old October 5th, 2009, 04:47 PM   #26 (permalink)
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the documentation I have for example provides Porcelain White (10) as a secondary color (two-tone) to Ebony Black (19) but under paint stripes it lists it as just white. I have never seen the paint stripe examples that Diego has until he recently posted them for me to see in another thread. Stripe color options are listed as Black, Blue, Red, White, and Gold. It is neat to see the stripe examples that Diego has as I have said most blue stripes on the cars I have seen are darker.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 04:56 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I say the Canadian documentation adds a lot to the value, yes, not having the correct engine takes away from it but still there is "documented" proof its a W-31, more proof than many have with their cars me included. I agree with everyone's thoughts though, fix it for yourself and enjoy it and who knows one day it may be worth a lot more - look at the 302 Camaro's and how much they are starting to bring in
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Old October 5th, 2009, 05:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Thanks for your input Bobs32 and Steven. I will never part the car out, for a number of reasons, but mainly because this car was bought to drag race and did race at our local track for many years in the 1970's and '80's. The track was sanctioned by NHRA and many big names in drag racing competed here. That track eventually closed because the Trans Canada Pipeline (natural gas) went right thru the dragstrip. It was called Keystone Bisons Dragways, I believe. The other very good reason is that it's a very solid car with the only rust being on the front portion of the leading edge of the rear wheelwells, by the edge of the top of the curve. Solid floors, trunk, rust free front sheet-metal, nice original interior, nice options, good glass, etc. It needs a new rubber mat for the floor if they are being reproduced? Anyways, any low production number, factory designed vehicle, whose main function was to be drag raced has a following. Not many of these cars still retain their original motors/trans combo's due to being raced for many years. For now, I need to decide how important finding a correct date coded carb, distributor, M21 and maybe block might be? It is interesting hearing everyone's point of view. Thanks for the replies.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 06:14 PM   #29 (permalink)
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a 100 point 70 W-31 F85 4 speed w-31 sold a few months ago for 35k with original drivetrain, a black one sold for less than that

if you had it redone,youd probably get 25-28k for it,but you still have 25k to spend on it

you dont need all that correct stuff to have fun with the car.

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Old October 5th, 2009, 06:19 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Good point agtw31, thanks.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 06:35 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I've noticed that before, Diego, that the stripe colors are (always?) referred to as a basic color, and not coded or related to a specific "shade". Meaning as "white" stripe as opposed to a "provincial white" (or #10) stripe. These GM Canada docs are the only place I recall seeing this kind of reference. I would have to say the GM Canada could have some incorrect info being passed on?
So we need to see some original stripes to verify what was really done?
I think there's a possibility that GM of Canada is passing along wrong information, and I don't think we need any original cars for this.

For example, if you look at the stripe chart, blue stripes were available for Astro Blue. Wouldn't that mean the stripe was a different color?

Ditto for the golds - they were all available with gold stripes (except Copper, which more likely than not looked like they clashed, rather than the gold stripe really being Copper.

The true answer for the latter can be found here at autocolorlibrary.com. White stripes are Porcelain White, but it looks like the other stripes have their own color mixture.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 09:07 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Hello and welcome to the site! You have good taste in cars! I have a 70 F-85 W-31 also as well as several 78-81 Malibu 2 doors and parts. If you want to sell the W-31, let me know, I would be interested. Enjoy the site and the hobby,

Chad.
Hey Chad,

Thanks for the phone call tonight. It was good to catch up on what's going on since our last conversation a couple years ago.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 10:51 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Thanks Diego, that color chart has # 10 Porcelain White. At least we know that it exists. I'm going to speak to some local guys who remember the car back when it was sold new from Holiday Chev Olds Ltd. back in 1970. It was a race car from day 1. One of the sons of the dealership was big into drag racing and apparently talked the buyer (a friend of his) into ordering this car to race. I will also check with the old timers who raced at Bison Keystone Raceways back in the day and see if there are any old pictures of the W31. More for my own understanding, but clarity is important for any restoration.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 12:13 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Go for it.
I'm doing an 85 delta from the ground up.
Now that's a bad investment. Haha.
There are all types of car guys out there. You just need to find what group to roll with.
Be it for shows, races, family cruises, business, love for the car, love for the labor, etc. etc.
We all rarely agree on what to do with a car, but we all agree it should be an Olds.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 05:09 AM   #35 (permalink)
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You need to talk with Dave Bunch who is just finishing a concours restoration on one....The Vinyl mat it took him I think 5 years to come up with a solution on.....
dave.bunch@browardschools.com


You might talk with Joe Galloway.....At one time I sold him a factory replacement W-31 short Block....don't know if he still has it.

jjolds@comcast.net

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Old October 6th, 2009, 05:37 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I think there's a possibility that GM of Canada is passing along wrong information, and I don't think we need any original cars for this.

For example, if you look at the stripe chart, blue stripes were available for Astro Blue. Wouldn't that mean the stripe was a different color?

The true answer for the latter can be found here at autocolorlibrary.com. White stripes are Porcelain White, but it looks like the other stripes have their own color mixture.
It is the answer if you can believe the PPG chart, which I have no reason to doubt. Either the PPG chart or GN Canada is wrong (reference the blue stripe car docs you posted. Under the circumstances, I'd bet GM Canada is wrong.
Further confirmation should be able to be found in the 1970 Product Information Manual (assembly manual) which I don't have (yet) if anyone cares to look it up.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 05:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Barry, a lot has been discussed here about perceived values, most all put in dollar value of "regular stock" restoration.
But I think that you are on to something with the car having a race history. I (as many do) have a high regard for factory correct cars, but in a case like this, I feel the real value (not so much in terms of dollar value) may be in the restoration and preservation of the race car that it is. Restored as a racer. There doesn't have to be the common obsession with "nut and bolt" perfect that pervades the car hobby at the expense of preserving what is original and in this case, how the car was used.
Just my take.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 06:00 AM   #38 (permalink)
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NADA shows 1970 cutlass W-31 at. (no listing for F-85 W-31)
$6,151.00 Low
$11,563.00 Average
$17,298.00 High
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Old October 6th, 2009, 09:20 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-(Chicago) View Post
Go for it.
I'm doing an 85 delta from the ground up.
Now that's a bad investment. Haha.
There are all types of car guys out there. You just need to find what group to roll with.
Be it for shows, races, family cruises, business, love for the car, love for the labor, etc. etc.
We all rarely agree on what to do with a car, but we all agree it should be an Olds.
You're right J-Chicago. It may be awhile before this project is rolling again!
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Old October 6th, 2009, 09:21 AM   #40 (permalink)
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You need to talk with Dave Bunch who is just finishing a concours restoration on one....The Vinyl mat it took him I think 5 years to come up with a solution on.....
dave.bunch@browardschools.com


You might talk with Joe Galloway.....At one time I sold him a factory replacement W-31 short Block....don't know if he still has it.

jjolds@comcast.net
Thanks for the leads Bobs32, I will check into it.
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