cdoering

I will be selling my 1970 442 W30 convertible soon. The car is originally code 28 twilight blue and has the pearl interior with the his/her floor shifter. The car has all the correct W30 parts on it including the following, F-Heads (julian date 211), original numbers carburetor, alternator, distributor, 4 code radiator, aluminum intake (date Sept 69') and exhaust manifold, OW transmission, original OAI hood. The engine and trans have been rebuilt with all new parts (1000 miles on the car). The car had a frame off restoration (all new body bushings). Car was repainted 2 years ago and brand new interior and convertible top was installed. Car needs nothing done to it. Car has won 1st Senior at the AACA in Oct 2016 and will be shown at the AACA Grand Nationals in KC in June 2017 (if I don't sell it by then). Car has won 1st at the Olds National several years in a row. Car scored over 975 points. This is a solid #2 restoration and very close to a #1 concurs car. If you know someone who is looking for a high quality original car, this would be a good one to own. I do judge these cars and would be happy to go over any detail about the car. I'n not in hurry to sell, car will sell for over six figures. I have receipts for everything I bought for the car and pictures of the restoration.

Let me know if anyone is looking for a show car. Yes the A/C works in the car.

thank you - Chris

oldsmobiledave

Sounds like an awesome car.


Cars for sale require an asking price as per forum rules.


So....

cdoering

Hagerty Shows value as followed:


70 442 W30 Convert (documented) - #1 $269,000, #2 $189,000
70 442 442 Convertible - #1 $138,000, #2 $88,000


My car is somewhere between $118,000 & $239,000


Chris

Stefano

Love the Color combo.

BangScreech4-4-2

Might be a good candidate for one of the big auctions. They go bananas over W-30 convertibles sporting high end restorations at Barrett-Jackson.

oldsmobiledave

So where do forum rules apply & where do they not apply? When others post a car for sale they post an asking price. Posting a $120,000 price range is not exactly pinpointing the price. I guess this is a question for the moderators to answer.


Just to be clear I am not picking on you. This is an awesome car I am sure. But what is the point of having forum rules if they are ignored by some posters & not enforced by moderators. Why does a $200,000 car get to bend the rules that a $40000 car is forced to adhere too?


Good luck with the sale. Hope it brings a fortune & goes to a good home.

72xw30

Sounds like a beautiful car!!

Any factory documents? Original drivetrain?

Thanks,
Sam

Diego

Gosh, Twilight Blue has gotta be the most popular color that year. I think I've seen many of the ragtops that color too. Dark green also seems to be as popular but come to think of it, I've never seen a W30 ragtop in that color.

smash72

I think a $100,000 plus holy grail W30 convertible for sale is extremely rare and exceptions should and could be made to the listing rules. Just my opinion not looking for an argument I'm just saying it's not very often this occurs and it's very doubtful to create anarchy within the rules of the site.
Talk to everyone after I serve my suspension

cdoering

If you want me to comply to the rule, asking price $200,000, but I will entertain serious offers if someone wants to inspect the car and test drive it.

Unfortunately I do not have a broad cast card, If I did, the car would be over $250,000.

thank you

Mascar Classics

Pictures would be helpful ..... also any kind of ownership history, etc? Historical information to support W30 claim?

Thank you,

442

Great car and best of luck on the sale. Who did the restoration and would you recommend them? I have a stalled restoration on a similar car I would like to complete some day...

72xw30

Hi Chris,

Any other factory documentation to confirm the W30 option?
Also, is the OW trans original to the vehicle?
Any pictures of the car and also the key W components? Can you please post them?

Thank you
Sam

abodyman

Curious, not sure if it was mentioned, but is the engine & transmission numbers-matching to the car?? Thanks, sounds like a beauty.

72xw30

? Chris ??????

cdoering

Not sure if everyone is reading what I typed in the original listing and decided to ask questions on what I stated, but will give more detail.


1) I do not have a broad cast card or a build sheet - if I did have the golden ticket, most olds guys know this car would be priced well above $250,000 for a grade level #1 to #2 car.


2) I bought the car from someone in WV. It was sitting for many year and needed to be restored. Everything on the car was restored or replaced.


3) Claim on W-30 - Car is a 34467MXXXXX car that was originally code 28 twilight blue. Cowl tag shows car was built in LAN MI. When car was restored, I had it repainted to its original color.


4) Car does not have a matching block, but does an a 70 442 W30 block (70MXXXXXX) in the car with the crank having the N on it. The pistons did have the V notch in them when engine was rebuilt with all new parts from a top level engine builder (built to exact spec at original W30 engine).


5) Car has all the correct numbers (not re-stamped parts) parts for a 1970 W30 (include - X water pump, IC & IF radiator tanks, original alternator with fins, original carburetor, original OAI hood, original OAI air cover, fan shroud, clutch fan, original aluminum intake manifold 9/69, red fender wells, OW transmission - not sure if matching - never looked at vin code when I had rebuilt, 3:23 gears since A/C car)


6) Car is show quality and pretty much a trailer queen - car is rarely driven. Car has won national awards and is fully restored and complete. There will be pictures of the car in the next Olds magazine for those who are members of the olds club that want to see it.


If you are a serious buyer, you can always call me - Not in a hurry to sell car. Chris 314-495-1700

69W30rag

So let me get this straight.........

You are looking to get 200K for a car that does not have any factory documents to confirm the W30 option. Also, not a numbers matching car? - 200K and you don't even know if the OW trans is original to the car - or if it has the matching VIN ---- really??? Come on!

You also contacted a few folks around me looking for the specific W parts including the OW transmission......hmmmmmmm.

This would be an interesting car to find out the prior ownership history!

GLWS

J

Stefano

The original OW trans would be an important selling point?

cdoering

Its guys like you why I don't post. Not sure if you even read the post from the beginning (most likely not). I gave a range what prices sell for from Hagerty. That's how I listed my car originally. Then the rule stated I had to put an actual price which I did as an ASKING price but would take offers for those who wanted to see it.


The OW trans I contacted you about was for a project car I want to build as a daily driver not a show car. Guess you lost out on me buying the trans from you. I use to think this sight was good for people in the club to buy parts from on projects, guess I was wrong with everyone trying to be a critic and judge.


Even just 442 convertibles based on Hagerty prices and what have actually been sold for range $88K for a #2 car to $138K for a #1 car.


If I had a broad cast card, the car would be over $250K and most guys in any olds club know this about these cars.


If you ever judged my car at the Olds Nationals, you would have seen the condition and all the items on the car. Asking price is one thing since I had to put this on the web site. Hopefully you will respond to cars that you can afford and not trying to be a judge on cars.


I do judge these cars and have been doing this for over 5 years. This is why I'm being honest with a car, my reputation actually means something.

69W30rag

The OW trans you contacted me about, that wasn't the only W component you were looking for - oh yes, that was for your driver car too and not for this convertible.

What about the distributor? Carburetor? Etc You made contact about those components too , remember?

Btw, I have seen your convertible in person and I still can't believe that you received 975 pts. for that car!

J

cdoering

I also look for parts for friends in the olds club who restore their cars. It takes time to find parts for those who want to have a car ready for olds nationals, and I help them out.


I didn't buy any parts from you for my car that I have, period. I doubt you even judge the 70-72 cars and probably don't know them very well. You should stick to your red or black 69 442 you have pictures in your post from Feb 2016 (when you joined this site after retiring). Once again its guys like you that put a sore spot for this site and olds club overall. Most guys are really helpful and knowledgeable, others are like you. I certainly hope in the future you can reframe from being a want-to-be with this site.

69W30rag

Did you check to see if the VIN on your OW transmission happens to match your car - yet?
That information might be important to know when selling the car - no???

ill bet you its one of two things:
a) non matching vin or b) matching vin but restamped

so, which one, A or B?

200k for a non matching engine and trans. W30 car - oh yes and NO docs? Really???
am i missing something???



J

Indy Guy

Documentation and matching numbers is what determines the top value of these cars period! You might find someone at an auction to give you a six-figure number for it, but I don't think any Olds guy in their right mind would. I've never seen the car but I'm sure it's nice. It scored well, but you don't have to prove it's authenticity with any paperwork. To me, it seems like a W30 clone and a non-numbers matching 442.

69W30rag

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...=3542868&pp=40

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...8&pp=40&page=2

Look for many W parts cdoering??? Hmm.........

J

joe_padavano

I have not seen this car and cannot comment on it's correctness or value, however in the interest of preventing truth decay, I have to point out a couple of things. Again, this is not intended to be a criticism of the car, but when incorrect statements like this are made about such a high-dollar car, it calls into question the validity of the car - you are not doing yourself a favor by stating them.

All that proves is that the car is a Lansing-built 442 convertible Far more non-W 442s were built in Lansing than W-30s.


Again, all this proves is that the block is a 455 originally installed in a Lansing-built car. That VIN derivative doesn't make it a "1970 442 W-30 block". In fact, depending on the last six digits (which you did not provide), it might even prove the block came out of a full size or Toro. A-body cars from Lansing were assigned sequential build numbers from 100001 to 400000 for the 1970 model year. Full size cars were 400001 to 700000 and Toros were 700001 and up. Of course, even if the number is within the A-body range, the block could have come from a Vista Cruiser or Cutlass Supreme as easily as from a 442. Of course, all 1970 Olds 455 blocks were identical. The only difference for W-30 motors was the select fit pistons which were apparently replaced during the rebuild anyway. Note that all 1970 cranks were nodular with the "N".

Good luck with the sale. It sounds like a very nice car.

71OldsCool

Joe - the level of detail you and some of the other guys with Oldsmobile work experience provide is very impressive. Do you know this stuff off the top of your head, or do you have to refer to notes?

David

joe_padavano

Thanks. In this case I remembered the serial number splits on Lansing cars because had I looked them up when I wrote the letter to Musclecar Review earlier this year (concerning exactly this same issue).

twilightblue28A

I have read the posts regarding this car. Doing criminal defense work, I must offer my defense of the seller and believe this case is to be sent to the jury for verdict. I spoke to the seller personally about this car. The seller was not deceptive to me and explained that the engine and transmission were not numbers matching, and not original to the car. When I asked, the seller responded that the seller did not have a build sheet or broadcast card, no original factory invoice, nor protect-o-plate. The seller explained that date correct F heads are on the car, as well as all other W-30 date correct parts: distributor, intake manifold, carburetor, etc.. I concluded that the sellers car is a non-documented 1970 442 convertible with all date coded W-30 parts. The impression that was left with me was that this car was built much better and to W-30 specifications than the "W-30'S" we have all seen advertised on Ebay and critiqued by the members and registered users on this site. As I began, the price is up to the jury to decide, once all the facts are known. It is up to the seller to accurately represent the car that is offered for sale , or face fraud charges. Thank you again, Twilightblue 28A

abodyman

Actually, I have my own opinions of this car & the asking price, but since it is a "for sale" thread, I assumed we were supposed to "stay out of it", unless we were actually a potential buyer? I'm sure someone looking to part with $150k plus, would do their homework first. G/L with the sale, op!

Stefano

Fraud is also exemplified when you know a representation NOT to be true. For example if you take a 442 you know, never was a W-30 then add all the parts to it during a restoration you performed and then advertise it as a W-30. Not saying this is the case with this 442, but just an example of fraud.

scottv442

did this car eventually sell??

4speed455

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0118-31...a639-112009049

mrolds69

Well...I don't know about the cars history. But...I know a bit about judging, and to me...980 points for a car you are asking 200K for is kind of pitiful. It's got the wrong radiator cap, what looks like mickey mouse wiring on the horn relay, wrong oil pressure sending unit, looks like the oil filler tube is 90 degrees off, looks like the front bumper is bent on the ends, looks like the steering wheel is upside down...I could be wrong on this stuff, I'm only looking at the pics. It IS a great looking car, though. Maybe some dumb, rich sheik will buy it.

scottv442

Ahhh....so this is the same car then. I was wondering if it was. Interesting how this will do at auction.

stevengerard

Wow, car looks great to me - wish my car looked that good. For those on here that know the door panels have 71/72 door pulls on it correct? My 70 W30 convertible does not have those though my 1972 Cutlass convertible does.

capstoneclub

on the front inner door panels. Really pretty car, the rear stance looks a tad high, but I like it

rand5204

70 442 convertibles definitely did not have pull straps on the doors.

Gary M

That is a gorgeous car. Bet it took a chunk of change to restore it. It wouldn't surprise me if it brought big money. It usually depends on one or more of the right buyers being at the auction that day.

scrappie

Is it me or does the front bumper look a little tweaked?

mrolds69

It's absolutely tweaked, I mentioned that. It IS a stunning looking car, it's one of the best color combos (imho) in 70. My guess would be 100K-150K despite it's many flaws and based on past prices. I can't see it going near 200K, but who knows? That's chump change to some people.