Raybestos Quality Control Problems
May 4th, 2015, 01:28 PM
#1
Raybestos Quality Control Problems
Raybestos Quality Control Problems
I think I've identified a quality control problem at Brake Parts Inc. that is attributable to the way that they're now sourcing parts from China. We all know that moving manufacturing to China requires a manufacturer to play close attention to quality control, because if they don't quality invariably goes downhill. My opinion is that Brake Parts Inc. isn't making quality control the priority that it should be.
I've been using Raybestos brake products for a long time. I started buying the Raybestos-branded products from Brake Parts Inc. many years ago, because at the time they were one of the few companies that still made parts in America. Unfortunately, that has changed. Today the tech support person at Raybestos/BPI told me that they stopped manufacturing rotors in McHenry, IL as of 6 years ago, and now everything is made in China. He said that they have so many different suppliers that it's difficult for them to keep track of where their parts actually come from. Unfortunately, it looks like they haven't been paying close attention to quality control and this has caused some disappointing results.
I recently started a brake rebuild on my 1962 Super 88. I decided that it was time to replace all of the hydraulics and all of the lines, so I shopped around for quality brake parts. The obvious choices were Raybestos and Dorman, and I have a wholesale account at the local Federated store, so I priced components there. Then I checked at RockAuto and NAPA. Rock was $60 cheaper than my Federated outlet, and about $100 cheaper than NAPA, for the same BPI manufactured parts under various brand labels. I decided to place an order with Rock for the Raybestos-branded parts.
One reason that I chose the Raybestos parts is because the wheel cylinder specifications were detailed enough to specifically indicate that all 4 wheel cylinders for my 62 Super 88 would use 3/8 bleeder screws. Here's a screen shot from the Raybestos online catalog that gives the rear wheel cylinder specs:
I decided that I wanted to keep all metric fittings off of my classic GM car, because this car only uses SAE-sized parts. I made a point of making sure that only SAE-sized fittings would be used on my wheel cylinders, and that they would all be the same size so that I would only have to buy one SAE-sized offset brake bleeding wrench to handle all 4 corners on the car.
The front wheel cylinders went on with no problems. 3/8 bleeder screws, just as advertised.
The Left Rear wheel cylinder, Part # WC13388 went on with no problems. 3/8 bleeder screw, just as advertised.
The Right Rear wheel cylinder, Part # WC13387 didn't pass inspection. A 3/8 line wrench wouldn't fit on the bleeder screw it was too small. 7/16 wouldn't fit either it was way too big. An M10 line wrench fit, but it was kind of loose and sloppy. A metric fitting was a real problem -- in addition to not being aesthetically "right" for the car, a metric fitting could not be safe to use on the wheel cylinder. I checked the Raybestos print catalog and confirmed that Raybestos only uses M10 bleeder screws that have metric pitch threads. They don't make an M10 bleeder screw that matches the 3/8-24 threaded inlet on the wheel cylinder. Because my bleeder screw appeared to be the wrong size, and it was stuck, I considered that the wheel cylinder had probably been damaged when someone in China forced a metric-thread bleeder screw into an SAE-thread opening.
I called the Raybestos / Brake Parts Inc. tech line to complain. I told the rep that I had a WC13387 that failed to meet it's bleeder screw spec, because it did not have the S6858 bleeder screw on it, which has a 3/8 hex head. I told him that the closest usable line wrench was an M10.
Without hesitation, he immediately replied,
What?!? 
As soon as I mentioned that I had a problem with a part that had a manufacturing defect, he thought that I had bought it from RockAuto! I immediately began to wonder if RockAuto was where Brake Parts Inc. dumped their factory seconds.
... continued ...
.
I think I've identified a quality control problem at Brake Parts Inc. that is attributable to the way that they're now sourcing parts from China. We all know that moving manufacturing to China requires a manufacturer to play close attention to quality control, because if they don't quality invariably goes downhill. My opinion is that Brake Parts Inc. isn't making quality control the priority that it should be.
I've been using Raybestos brake products for a long time. I started buying the Raybestos-branded products from Brake Parts Inc. many years ago, because at the time they were one of the few companies that still made parts in America. Unfortunately, that has changed. Today the tech support person at Raybestos/BPI told me that they stopped manufacturing rotors in McHenry, IL as of 6 years ago, and now everything is made in China. He said that they have so many different suppliers that it's difficult for them to keep track of where their parts actually come from. Unfortunately, it looks like they haven't been paying close attention to quality control and this has caused some disappointing results.
I recently started a brake rebuild on my 1962 Super 88. I decided that it was time to replace all of the hydraulics and all of the lines, so I shopped around for quality brake parts. The obvious choices were Raybestos and Dorman, and I have a wholesale account at the local Federated store, so I priced components there. Then I checked at RockAuto and NAPA. Rock was $60 cheaper than my Federated outlet, and about $100 cheaper than NAPA, for the same BPI manufactured parts under various brand labels. I decided to place an order with Rock for the Raybestos-branded parts.
One reason that I chose the Raybestos parts is because the wheel cylinder specifications were detailed enough to specifically indicate that all 4 wheel cylinders for my 62 Super 88 would use 3/8 bleeder screws. Here's a screen shot from the Raybestos online catalog that gives the rear wheel cylinder specs:
I decided that I wanted to keep all metric fittings off of my classic GM car, because this car only uses SAE-sized parts. I made a point of making sure that only SAE-sized fittings would be used on my wheel cylinders, and that they would all be the same size so that I would only have to buy one SAE-sized offset brake bleeding wrench to handle all 4 corners on the car.
The front wheel cylinders went on with no problems. 3/8 bleeder screws, just as advertised.
The Left Rear wheel cylinder, Part # WC13388 went on with no problems. 3/8 bleeder screw, just as advertised.
The Right Rear wheel cylinder, Part # WC13387 didn't pass inspection. A 3/8 line wrench wouldn't fit on the bleeder screw it was too small. 7/16 wouldn't fit either it was way too big. An M10 line wrench fit, but it was kind of loose and sloppy. A metric fitting was a real problem -- in addition to not being aesthetically "right" for the car, a metric fitting could not be safe to use on the wheel cylinder. I checked the Raybestos print catalog and confirmed that Raybestos only uses M10 bleeder screws that have metric pitch threads. They don't make an M10 bleeder screw that matches the 3/8-24 threaded inlet on the wheel cylinder. Because my bleeder screw appeared to be the wrong size, and it was stuck, I considered that the wheel cylinder had probably been damaged when someone in China forced a metric-thread bleeder screw into an SAE-thread opening.
I called the Raybestos / Brake Parts Inc. tech line to complain. I told the rep that I had a WC13387 that failed to meet it's bleeder screw spec, because it did not have the S6858 bleeder screw on it, which has a 3/8 hex head. I told him that the closest usable line wrench was an M10.
Without hesitation, he immediately replied,
Originally Posted by Raybestos Tech Support Rep
.
Did you buy it from RockAuto?
.
Did you buy it from RockAuto?
.
As soon as I mentioned that I had a problem with a part that had a manufacturing defect, he thought that I had bought it from RockAuto! I immediately began to wonder if RockAuto was where Brake Parts Inc. dumped their factory seconds.
... continued ...
.
May 4th, 2015, 01:30 PM
#2
Continued from previous post:
The BPI rep told me that I needed to return the improperly manufactured part to RockAuto to get a refund or an exchange. He flatly refused to offer any direct support for the product, and gave the reason that RockAuto is not one of their official distributors, and Brake Parts Inc can't be responsible for what happens to parts after they leave their custody. Essentially, he tried to deny all responsibility for the manufacturing error and tried to dump me off onto RockAuto. I told him that was not acceptable, because if they had mismanufactured a specific run of parts, then the warranty process with RockAuto might result in me receiving another defective part. Instead of going to the merchant, I wanted to deal directly with the manufacturer to determine if there was a problem upstream. He asked for the date codes off of my Raybestos box, and looked that lot number up in his computer. He confirmed that BPI sells directly to RockAuto, and gave me the impression that they had sold that specific lot of parts directly to RockAuto -- which put an end to the chain-of-custody argument for BPI not being responsible for the quality of the parts.
I asked if there was any possibility of them just sending me a 3/8 S6858 bleeder screw, which would fix the problem. He told me that he doesn't have access to bleeder screws, so he couldn't help me. He told me that my best bet would be to go to a local auto parts store to buy the proper bleeder screw. I responded that I didn't think it was appropriate for me to use my money to fix their manufacturing error, and that they needed to stand up and assume responsibility for the problem. The conversation continued along that no support from Brake Parts Inc path until the conversation became somewhat heated. Eventually the rep offered to send me a brand-new WC13387 out of factory inventory to replace the defective one. That seemed like a generous solution to the problem.
The replacement WC13387 arrived today. The box also included the matching WC13388 for the left side, which was a nice gesture on their part. Upon opening the boxes, both of the sealed plastic bags had been torn open, as if someone had checked the bleeder screws before sending the wheel cylinders to me. As I looked at the parts, something just didn't look right
You guessed it neither part had the correct bleeder screws. Instead of having the specified S6858 bleeder screws with the 3/8 hex head, both had the wrong bleeder screw. The supplied bleeders were slightly smaller than M10, just like the defective part from RockAuto. Looking at the boxes, the date codes are the same the defective parts that I received from RockAuto had the same 4-digit date code as the defective replacements that were sent directly to me from Brake Parts Inc. All of them had the same problem. Although the WC13388 that I received from RockAuto had the correct S6858 bleeder, both the WC13387 and WC13388 that I received directly from Brake Parts Inc. both had the wrong (metric) bleeders.
I called Brake Parts Inc.'s tech support line today to thank them for sending me the replacement parts and to advise them that they had an inventory control problem, as it looks like an entire lot of parts were manufactured with the wrong bleeder screws. I was told that as a result of my call last week, they just discovered that all of these defective parts had passed through quality control and that they had just become aware of the problem.
I was told that this isn't a big deal just use a metric wrench. I replied that although that wouldn't be a problem if I was working on a new production car that is predominantly metric, where it is normal for front and rear bleeder screws to be different sizes, it would not be acceptable for a 53-year old Oldsmobile that was designed to have matching-sized SAE fittings, and that doesn't have a single metric fitting on it. Even worse, I don't want to be in the situation where I have three SAE bleeders and one Metric one, or where I have to buy a new SAE bleeder, or a new Metric offset bleeding wrench, just to deal with the one oddball wheel cylinder that doesn't meet it's manufacturing specs.
I was told that now that Brake Parts Inc doesn't manufacture their parts in America any more, that all of their production has moved to China, and they have a bewildering number of suppliers to deal with. Essentially, I got an excuse for why it is just too hard for them to do sufficient quality control to ensure that the parts that are being sold actually match their advertised specifications.
I thought that was a very odd position to take. I told the support staff that I chose to use their parts specifically because they publish detailed specifications for their parts, both in their print catalog and in their online catalog, and because they advertised the parts as having SAE fittings, which I view as a critical criterion for my classic car restoration. I added that I thought it was a significant problem for them to advertise that their parts have certain specifications, and then to deliver parts that deviate significantly from the advertised specification, and then not to be willing to fix the problem when a customer complains. Again, I was told that it's just too big of a job for them to assure that everything meets the specs that they're supposed to have.
I found their indifference to the problem to be very disturbing. I asked for a supervisor and I was told that everyone was out for a trade show and that I wouldn't get a call back for at least 2 weeks.
I guess the only solution is to pay out of pocket to buy the right 3/8" bleeders from someone else, and to stop trusting Raybestos to be the brand-name quality that I always thought it to be.
The BPI rep told me that I needed to return the improperly manufactured part to RockAuto to get a refund or an exchange. He flatly refused to offer any direct support for the product, and gave the reason that RockAuto is not one of their official distributors, and Brake Parts Inc can't be responsible for what happens to parts after they leave their custody. Essentially, he tried to deny all responsibility for the manufacturing error and tried to dump me off onto RockAuto. I told him that was not acceptable, because if they had mismanufactured a specific run of parts, then the warranty process with RockAuto might result in me receiving another defective part. Instead of going to the merchant, I wanted to deal directly with the manufacturer to determine if there was a problem upstream. He asked for the date codes off of my Raybestos box, and looked that lot number up in his computer. He confirmed that BPI sells directly to RockAuto, and gave me the impression that they had sold that specific lot of parts directly to RockAuto -- which put an end to the chain-of-custody argument for BPI not being responsible for the quality of the parts.
I asked if there was any possibility of them just sending me a 3/8 S6858 bleeder screw, which would fix the problem. He told me that he doesn't have access to bleeder screws, so he couldn't help me. He told me that my best bet would be to go to a local auto parts store to buy the proper bleeder screw. I responded that I didn't think it was appropriate for me to use my money to fix their manufacturing error, and that they needed to stand up and assume responsibility for the problem. The conversation continued along that no support from Brake Parts Inc path until the conversation became somewhat heated. Eventually the rep offered to send me a brand-new WC13387 out of factory inventory to replace the defective one. That seemed like a generous solution to the problem.
The replacement WC13387 arrived today. The box also included the matching WC13388 for the left side, which was a nice gesture on their part. Upon opening the boxes, both of the sealed plastic bags had been torn open, as if someone had checked the bleeder screws before sending the wheel cylinders to me. As I looked at the parts, something just didn't look right
You guessed it neither part had the correct bleeder screws. Instead of having the specified S6858 bleeder screws with the 3/8 hex head, both had the wrong bleeder screw. The supplied bleeders were slightly smaller than M10, just like the defective part from RockAuto. Looking at the boxes, the date codes are the same the defective parts that I received from RockAuto had the same 4-digit date code as the defective replacements that were sent directly to me from Brake Parts Inc. All of them had the same problem. Although the WC13388 that I received from RockAuto had the correct S6858 bleeder, both the WC13387 and WC13388 that I received directly from Brake Parts Inc. both had the wrong (metric) bleeders.
I called Brake Parts Inc.'s tech support line today to thank them for sending me the replacement parts and to advise them that they had an inventory control problem, as it looks like an entire lot of parts were manufactured with the wrong bleeder screws. I was told that as a result of my call last week, they just discovered that all of these defective parts had passed through quality control and that they had just become aware of the problem.
I was told that this isn't a big deal just use a metric wrench. I replied that although that wouldn't be a problem if I was working on a new production car that is predominantly metric, where it is normal for front and rear bleeder screws to be different sizes, it would not be acceptable for a 53-year old Oldsmobile that was designed to have matching-sized SAE fittings, and that doesn't have a single metric fitting on it. Even worse, I don't want to be in the situation where I have three SAE bleeders and one Metric one, or where I have to buy a new SAE bleeder, or a new Metric offset bleeding wrench, just to deal with the one oddball wheel cylinder that doesn't meet it's manufacturing specs.
I was told that now that Brake Parts Inc doesn't manufacture their parts in America any more, that all of their production has moved to China, and they have a bewildering number of suppliers to deal with. Essentially, I got an excuse for why it is just too hard for them to do sufficient quality control to ensure that the parts that are being sold actually match their advertised specifications.
I thought that was a very odd position to take. I told the support staff that I chose to use their parts specifically because they publish detailed specifications for their parts, both in their print catalog and in their online catalog, and because they advertised the parts as having SAE fittings, which I view as a critical criterion for my classic car restoration. I added that I thought it was a significant problem for them to advertise that their parts have certain specifications, and then to deliver parts that deviate significantly from the advertised specification, and then not to be willing to fix the problem when a customer complains. Again, I was told that it's just too big of a job for them to assure that everything meets the specs that they're supposed to have.
I found their indifference to the problem to be very disturbing. I asked for a supervisor and I was told that everyone was out for a trade show and that I wouldn't get a call back for at least 2 weeks.
I guess the only solution is to pay out of pocket to buy the right 3/8" bleeders from someone else, and to stop trusting Raybestos to be the brand-name quality that I always thought it to be.
May 4th, 2015, 04:23 PM
#4
I had thought about that. If I have a metric bleeder that's been forced into a 3/8-24 inlet then my wheel cylinder is damaged, unsafe and unusable. I guess I'm going to have to take apart my growing collection of out of spec parts and use a tap and die set to verify what I've got and whether anything is damaged or whether the bleeders were just made with the wrong hex head on them.
This really annoys me, as I have several cars that all use the same 6858 bleeder screw, so this screw problem effects 5 different vehicles: 99 Suburban, 62 Olds, 57 Chevy, F-150 and 69 Chevelle all use the same bleeder.
I was being kind in my previous post -- I didn't mention another problem I had with a defective master cylinder. On this same order from RockAuto I also bought a Raybestos-branded master cylinder, and it arrived without the MC-to-booster seal that they show in the product photo.
I'm not sure if the missing seal was due to a manufacturing error or an incomplete customer return. I asked them to just send me the missing seal -- no dice. I have to ship the entire MC back to them. I was thinking it would be easier to just find a seal, but it turns out that those are pretty hard to find.
As it stands now, I've had 2 out of 5 bad Raybestos parts on my last RockAuto order (one master cylinder, one wheel cylinder out of four, for a 40% failure rate) and 2 out of 2 bad Raybestos wheel cylinders that came directly from the factory (100% failure rate). That's 4 out of 7 parts that weren't right (57% total failure rate).
A 57% failure rate is really, really BAD.
This really annoys me, as I have several cars that all use the same 6858 bleeder screw, so this screw problem effects 5 different vehicles: 99 Suburban, 62 Olds, 57 Chevy, F-150 and 69 Chevelle all use the same bleeder.
I was being kind in my previous post -- I didn't mention another problem I had with a defective master cylinder. On this same order from RockAuto I also bought a Raybestos-branded master cylinder, and it arrived without the MC-to-booster seal that they show in the product photo.
I'm not sure if the missing seal was due to a manufacturing error or an incomplete customer return. I asked them to just send me the missing seal -- no dice. I have to ship the entire MC back to them. I was thinking it would be easier to just find a seal, but it turns out that those are pretty hard to find.
As it stands now, I've had 2 out of 5 bad Raybestos parts on my last RockAuto order (one master cylinder, one wheel cylinder out of four, for a 40% failure rate) and 2 out of 2 bad Raybestos wheel cylinders that came directly from the factory (100% failure rate). That's 4 out of 7 parts that weren't right (57% total failure rate).
A 57% failure rate is really, really BAD.
Last edited by bob p; May 4th, 2015 at 04:32 PM.
May 4th, 2015, 07:48 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,142
Wow- I find this story strange because I had a worse experience with the same rear wheel cylinders, same part number, from the same place you got yours from. I put these rear wheel cylinders on, no problem- I notice the 10 MM screw when I go to bleed them- no problem- I won't cry about that. I then notice a brake fluid puddle on the ground from the left rear wheel. I thought the new brake lines weren't tight. Wrong. Upon much further inspection, the piston inside the wheel cylinder was CRACKED! In two separate pieces! The outside of the wheel cylinder looked great- no dents from being dropped and no evidence of it being used or abused. I ended up throwing both wheel cylinders out- it wasn't worth my time, aggravation or shipping expenses to get them replaced- they were both under 6 bucks if I remember right. Replaced all 4 wheel cylinders with another brand. Maybe it was a one in a billion chance? Who knows
May 4th, 2015, 11:00 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 13,754
This is a classic example of how "new" doesn't always guarantee a god part that fits the application. Fortunately, you do have parts that fit - the ones you took off. Rebuilt originals may be a much better option than "new" parts. Luckily wheel cylinders are really easy to rebuild.
May 5th, 2015, 11:58 AM
#8
> new doesn't always guarantee a good part that fits the application
I'm not sure that you read all of my post. The problem has nothing to do with a new part not "fitting" the application.
The master cylinder fits the car just fine. It's just missing a seal that's supposed to be included with the MC. That's a quality control failure.
The wheel cylinder fits the car just fine, it's the same part that it's always been. The problem is that it's got the wrong bleeder screw. That's a quality control failure.
Rebuilding my original wheel cylinders can not possibly solve the problem, considering that the wheel cylinder I already have is fine. It's the bleeder screw that's the problem. If I were to rebuild the WC, the best possible outcome would be that I'd end up with exactly what I already have. When I go to replace the bleeder screw, I'll find that a new S6858 bleeder screw is only available with an M10 head. Then I'll discover that I've gone to the trouble of rebuilding the wheel cylinder only to arrive at the point I was already at before I started. I don't see the point.
> I notice the 10 MM screw when I go to bleed them- no problem- I won't cry about that.
I guess it wouldn't bother me so much if I had both left and right wheel cylinders that had M10-head bleeder screws. But I got a left WC with a 3/8 head and a right WC with an M10 head. That's just sloppy QA on the part of Brake Parts Inc.
Left and Right should match, and I shouldn't have to spend extra money to make that happen.
I'm not sure that you read all of my post. The problem has nothing to do with a new part not "fitting" the application.
The master cylinder fits the car just fine. It's just missing a seal that's supposed to be included with the MC. That's a quality control failure.
The wheel cylinder fits the car just fine, it's the same part that it's always been. The problem is that it's got the wrong bleeder screw. That's a quality control failure.
Rebuilding my original wheel cylinders can not possibly solve the problem, considering that the wheel cylinder I already have is fine. It's the bleeder screw that's the problem. If I were to rebuild the WC, the best possible outcome would be that I'd end up with exactly what I already have. When I go to replace the bleeder screw, I'll find that a new S6858 bleeder screw is only available with an M10 head. Then I'll discover that I've gone to the trouble of rebuilding the wheel cylinder only to arrive at the point I was already at before I started. I don't see the point.
> I notice the 10 MM screw when I go to bleed them- no problem- I won't cry about that.
I guess it wouldn't bother me so much if I had both left and right wheel cylinders that had M10-head bleeder screws. But I got a left WC with a 3/8 head and a right WC with an M10 head. That's just sloppy QA on the part of Brake Parts Inc.
Left and Right should match, and I shouldn't have to spend extra money to make that happen.
May 5th, 2015, 01:23 PM
#9
Senior Moment Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,860
When our manufacturers can't compete because the Chinese pay so little, and pollute so much, we all suffer. There are basically no new manufacturing jobs in the U.S. I buy from the U.S. as much as possible, but sometimes it's impossible. Thank our politicians for the off shoring of our good jobs. All to make a buck, and crappy products. Made In U.S.A. means something.
May 5th, 2015, 03:07 PM
#10
72 442 Conv Viking Blue
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Clarence NY
Posts: 50
> new doesn't always guarantee a good part that fits the application
I'm not sure that you read all of my post. The problem has nothing to do with a new part not "fitting" the application.
The master cylinder fits the car just fine. It's just missing a seal that's supposed to be included with the MC. That's a quality control failure.
The wheel cylinder fits the car just fine, it's the same part that it's always been. The problem is that it's got the wrong bleeder screw. That's a quality control failure.
Rebuilding my original wheel cylinders can not possibly solve the problem, considering that the wheel cylinder I already have is fine. It's the bleeder screw that's the problem. If I were to rebuild the WC, the best possible outcome would be that I'd end up with exactly what I already have. When I go to replace the bleeder screw, I'll find that a new S6858 bleeder screw is only available with an M10 head. Then I'll discover that I've gone to the trouble of rebuilding the wheel cylinder only to arrive at the point I was already at before I started. I don't see the point.
> I notice the 10 MM screw when I go to bleed them- no problem- I won't cry about that.
I guess it wouldn't bother me so much if I had both left and right wheel cylinders that had M10-head bleeder screws. But I got a left WC with a 3/8 head and a right WC with an M10 head. That's just sloppy QA on the part of Brake Parts Inc.
Left and Right should match, and I shouldn't have to spend extra money to make that happen.
I'm not sure that you read all of my post. The problem has nothing to do with a new part not "fitting" the application.
The master cylinder fits the car just fine. It's just missing a seal that's supposed to be included with the MC. That's a quality control failure.
The wheel cylinder fits the car just fine, it's the same part that it's always been. The problem is that it's got the wrong bleeder screw. That's a quality control failure.
Rebuilding my original wheel cylinders can not possibly solve the problem, considering that the wheel cylinder I already have is fine. It's the bleeder screw that's the problem. If I were to rebuild the WC, the best possible outcome would be that I'd end up with exactly what I already have. When I go to replace the bleeder screw, I'll find that a new S6858 bleeder screw is only available with an M10 head. Then I'll discover that I've gone to the trouble of rebuilding the wheel cylinder only to arrive at the point I was already at before I started. I don't see the point.
> I notice the 10 MM screw when I go to bleed them- no problem- I won't cry about that.
I guess it wouldn't bother me so much if I had both left and right wheel cylinders that had M10-head bleeder screws. But I got a left WC with a 3/8 head and a right WC with an M10 head. That's just sloppy QA on the part of Brake Parts Inc.
Left and Right should match, and I shouldn't have to spend extra money to make that happen.
May 5th, 2015, 03:12 PM
#11
When our manufacturers can't compete because the Chinese pay so little, and pollute so much, we all suffer. There are basically no new manufacturing jobs in the U.S. I buy from the U.S. as much as possible, but sometimes it's impossible. Thank our politicians for the off shoring of our good jobs. All to make a buck, and crappy products. Made In U.S.A. means something.
It wasn't that long ago that I could buy a Raybestos part and it had "Made in USA" cast into it. As little as 6 years ago I could still call the local Federated supply house and they would ask me whether I wanted to buy cheap Chinesium parts or high quality Made in USA parts. When I did the disc brake conversion on my 57 Chevy 7 years ago, I specifically bought the Chevelle rotors and calipers that were still Made in USA.
Fast forward to 2015 and the Raybestos name now means Chinesium garbage. The only exception is the low volume parts that are sold in such low quantities that it's not cost effective to move production from Mexico to China.
I don't agree that our manufacturers can't compete. There are plenty of people like us, who are willing to pay premium dollars for a premium quality American Made product. The problem is that manufacturers aren't willing to compete on the basis of selling a better product at a higher price point. They aren't even willing to try to sell a premium brand, Made in the USA at a premium price. All that the MBA cares about is low cost, high volume sales, and that means cheap, **** quality, from China.
I used to buy Raybestos branded products because they were Made in USA and carried a lifetime warranty. Now Raybestos is a Chinese product with a crappy 3 year warranty. It's not a premium product. It's just more Chinesium crap that's being sold in a Red, White and Blue box.
Never again.
May 5th, 2015, 09:04 PM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 13,754
Yes, I read all of your post. What I meant to say was "new doesn't always guarantee a good part, or one that fits the application". The first part of the statement fits your situation.
May 5th, 2015, 09:30 PM
#13
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Nothing else matters.
He and his cronies are all pulling down huge salaries, with guaranteed "golden parachutes" in case of failure, and will come up smelling like roses no matter what happens, but if he can bump the share price up a couple of cents by firing all his workers, closing his plant, moving to China, and making total crap, then the computer algorithms that buy and sell stocks will make him look good, and he will get a big fat bonus. And a nice toasty spot in Hell.
- Eric
May 6th, 2015, 09:44 AM
#15
CH3NO2 LEARN IT BURN IT
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Land of Taxes
Posts: 4,841
When our manufacturers can't compete because the Chinese pay so little, and pollute so much, we all suffer. There are basically no new manufacturing jobs in the U.S. I buy from the U.S. as much as possible, but sometimes it's impossible. Thank our politicians for the off shoring of our good jobs. All to make a buck, and crappy products. Made In U.S.A. means something.
Also well said MD & Bob!
Last edited by droldsmorland; May 6th, 2015 at 09:46 AM.
May 6th, 2015, 10:35 AM
#16
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
May 6th, 2015, 01:05 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,257
Classic example: Vice Grip pliers
Made for over 100 years in the USA.
Recently closed the manufacturing here and shipped the production to China.
All you need to do is compare the USA made tools to the cheap chineseum tools to see that they are inferior.
The issue is that the average customer will buy the inferior product and not care.
I won't.
Made for over 100 years in the USA.
Recently closed the manufacturing here and shipped the production to China.
All you need to do is compare the USA made tools to the cheap chineseum tools to see that they are inferior.
The issue is that the average customer will buy the inferior product and not care.
I won't.
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