oldsguybry

I really didn't want to start another thread on this topic , but I'm really at a loss with my brakes at this point . I replaced the rotors with mid grade ones , good pads , greased the slides , and replaced the hoses on both sides . The car still has the symptoms of a slightly warped rotor feeling when I brake . I also seem to sometimes notice it at certain speeds too when I'm NOT braking . FYI... I have one bad/worn tire in the back , but not sure if that would affect the front end .

I didn't replace ALL these parts on the same weekend . I started out by replacing the rotors and pads . I noticed it still was a little funny , so I cleaned/greased the slides , and while the wheels were off the ground I put the car in neutral and spun the wheels on both sides . They spun freely (didn't seem bent) with the pads backed off of the rotors , but after pumping the brakes to get the pads back where they should be , the passenger side wheel would stick a little every revolution when I spun it . The driver side spun freely though . Both hoses needed to be replaced because they were cracked all over the place , but I was out of time and had to do that the next weekend . That weekend came and I was busy as @$#% so I only got the passenger side hose replaced that weekend , and gravity bled the brake on that side ( it did make a difference it seemed ) .... by this time it was three weeks later since I started this mess , and it seemed like the rotor on the passenger side was warping a bit already from me driving it the whole time I was trying to diagnose the problem . I had a warranty on the rotors so I got another one from the parts store for the passenger side again , and put it on . I once again pumped the brakes to set the pad on that side , went to the other side of the car and replaced the last hose + gravity bled the brake on THAT side . I took the car for a drive hoping for the best , but there's still something in the background yet like a bent rim or warped something . I also noticed something new the brakes have been doing since I started messing with this crap also .... When I come to a slow stop , sometimes the pedal gets a bit soft and the pad sounds and feels like it skids on the rotor like the anti-lock brakes are kicking in or something . It also makes that infamous anti-lock brake sound when this happens . It did it once after I put the new rotor and hose on today .

With all that said , what should I replace next ? The piston on the caliper pushes in like it should when compressing it to put new pads on , so I'm not sure if I should just replace the caliper next ? OR , should I replace the hub assembly/bearing ? I really didn't spend a ton on this yet because it needed pads/rotors anyhow , so the only thing I had to fork out for other then that is the two hoses , caliper grease, and a bottle of brake fluid. Should I flip a coin and heads it's the caliper , tails it's the bearing ? . I never had to go through this with brakes before and I'm getting really tired of jacking this car up and down / taking the same parts off over and over . What would you replace next ? or any input would be greatly appreciated .

oldsguybry

The bearing is like $90 , and the caliper is $66

oldcutlass

What is that top picture? It's not for your car. Have you cleaned and inspected the wheel bearings and races? Do they have the correct preload on the spindle? I can see a bad tire giving a vibration, however it would do it all the time, braking or not. Are all the control arm bushings in good shape?

oldsguybry

The top picture is the bearing hub assembly for my 93 Buick . It doesn't have the old school bearing system . The control arm bushings are as good as to be expected for a 21 yr old car , but I wouldn't rule it out .

edit ... Now that you got me thinking about the control arm bushings I will have to check that good to . That's another possibility .

oldcutlass

Sorry I confused myself, I forgot that we were working on your Buick. You have to replace the hub assy as a unit if I remember correctly as there is no source for the bearings by themselves. You might want to inspect the units for excessive free play and also the CV joints.

Allan R

Time for a new car Bryan. Get something newer and safer. Remember, your son has to ride in this thing. This isn't the first thing that's gone wrong with this car and won't be the last. When it starts turning into a $ pit and becoming unreliable it's time to get rid of it.

joe_padavano

For those of us who can't keep track of what everyone's working on, you'll get better info if you provide all pertinent info in a thread. A 1993 Buick what?

In any case, have you put a dial indicator on the rotor and checked for runout?

Allan R

He's done new rotors. Same issue.

joe_padavano

And yet I've had brand new Chinesium rotors and drums recently that had runout right out of the box. Also, since the rotor apparently sits on the hub flange (can't tell for sure since we don't yet know the model) it's very possible that something is preventing the rotor from seating fully on the hub flange.

Again, have you put a dial indicator on the rotors and checked for runout?

oldsguybry

Thanks for input on this . Joe , I never did the dial indicator , I'll have to look into that . It's a 93 Buick Lesabre .

Thanks Allan for saying you will buy me a new car . I wish I could afford one .

I know this is a common problem with the full size Buick's , but this seems a little beyond that .

Allan R

Joe, if you want to review what's been done or advice offered so far? Here's the link to Bryans other thread about this. How do I know if caliper is bad ?

joe_padavano

OK, I've not really paid attention to that thread until now. First, I used to have a 1993 Allante with the same brakes. The problem usually isn't the caliper, its either the caliper mounting hardware causing a problem or the old hydraulic hose collapsing and creating a one-way valve. Both potential problems were discussed in the thread, but DEFINITELY replace the mounting hardware every time you remove the caliper. Those plastic sleeves are a PITA. Always use good silicone grease (not a petroleum based product) on the sleeves and pins. If there's any question about the hose, replace it. And consider getting the rotors turned on the car to take out any runout.

oldsguybry

First off , sorry for having two threads and confusing everyone . I was hoping to get this rectified before I move on to replacing the rotors and pads on the wife's car , which are over due .


As far as the Buick goes Joe , I bought and used caliper grease . It says it's synthetic caliper grease , and it mentions using it on all parts on the caliper , including the guide pins and bushings . It does not want to come off of your hands when you get that grease on them . The grease seems like it has wax in it or something . I admit I did not replace the plastic sleeves , because the ones that were on there looked pretty good .... and like you said , they are tough to get out . I should of just replaced all the hardware like you said above . I'm kind of learning along the way on this , because I never had this problem before after replacing the rotors and pads . It's kind of funny because I never greased slides before this car , and did lots of brake jobs . I never had a problem before (which is a surprise) , and always had excellent brakes with no issues . I guess I still had a lot to learn . The guys even called me out when i was being dumb and let the caliper dangle by the hose , but since then I replaced both hoses which needed it .

I think instead of just replacing the hardware on the caliper , I maybe should just buy the new caliper which will have new hardware on it ( I hope ) . Just under $70 . I figure if I buy just the slides & bushings it will probably cost around $15 , so maybe I'm better off just putting a new caliper on for another $50 to eliminate all doubt ...... hopefully . If that doesn't do it , then I was going to maybe just shoot myself .

garys 68&72

I forgot you were working on a newer car too.
If that's a sealed bearing unit used in antilock brake cars, they can have odd symptom when going bad.
Is the feeling worse after it warms up. Any odd twitchiness or pulling to that side?
I would also check simple stuff too, like a bent rim.
If that's a FWD, how are the CV joints?

Fun71

Agreed.

oldsguybry

The CV's seem ok as far as I know . There doesn't seem to be any play in anything on the front end , including the hub assembly itself . No pulling to any side or twitchiness , just that warped rotor feeling when braking . This does seem to get worse after warmed up .

oldcutlass

Joe is right, I have had issues in the past with new rotors being warped, maybe for grins and giggles you can talk the auto parts store into taking just enough metal off them to true them up, couldn't hurt. It would be less expensive than to keep throwing parts at it.

DJS70cutlass

Do you feel this in the steering wheel at all? Could it possibly be the drums in the back........I've seen it a lot on these cars. Also have the hub assembly's been replaced yet? If not are they true?

oldsguybry

It's very possible they gave me a bad one , but that would be the third or fourth one in a row that was bad .

I swear , if they are giving me bad rotors ..... grrrrrr . Can these newer type rotors be turned ? I though you could only turn the old school ones that take the Timken roller bearings & races . I think we talked about this already I can't remember anything anymore lol

oldsguybry

I can feel it a little in the steering wheel , but it's not visible . I can take my hands off the wheel , hit the brakes , and the car don't pull to one side or the other , nor can you see the shake in the wheel visibly . I did not replace the hubs yet , and I'm not sure if they are true or how you would check that . This problem seems to kind of correct itself from time to time now that I think about it , that's why I was thinking the caliper . It does good when cold , but seems to become more noticeable after warmed up .

rustyroger

[QUOTE=oldsguybry;708108] The car still has the symptoms of a slightly warped rotor feeling when I brake . I also seem to sometimes notice it at certain speeds too when I'm NOT braking . FYI... I have one bad/worn tire in the back , but not sure if that would affect the front end .

I took the car for a drive hoping for the best , but there's still something in the background yet like a bent rim or warped something . I also noticed something new the brakes have been doing since I started messing with this crap also .... When I come to a slow stop , sometimes the pedal gets a bit soft and the pad sounds and feels like it skids on the rotor like the anti-lock brakes are kicking in or something . It also makes that infamous anti-lock brake sound when this happens . It did it once after I put the new rotor and hose on today
/QUOTE]


Change the bad tire, you will need to even if your brakes are perfect.
Did you try swapping the pads left to right?.
I've remembered something else I used to do back when faced with a similar situation. That was to take the pads out and grind or file off the friction surface of the pads, and work the rotors over with some medium grit abrasive. The idea was the pads and possibly rotor had glazed over. Anyway, it often seemed to work.


Roger.

oldsguybry

Thanks , I will try this and replace the rotors and pads on the wife's car this weekend too . We are going on vacation in her car , so I have to get this done now .

DJS70cutlass

What exactly is the problem your still having? And to check the hubs just take the calipers and rotors off (again).....then start it up and put it in gear. Your looking for the hub surface where the rotor sits to wobble (if it's bent)

DJS70cutlass

Also since you're from WI like me..........has this car seen a lot of our winters? If it has check the bolts that hold the subframe up at the rear. They may have rusted to the point that the subframe is moving around under braking.

oldsguybry

Well , I sure hope it's either the caliper or the hub assy . I really don't want another car that has rare , hard to diagnose issues . I had enough of that with the " It cost me $7000 to fix " mini van we use to have .

BUY ANOTHER CAR ???WHY???

I paid $1000 for the car three years ago , and put around $1000 into it since then . A total of 20,000 miles were put on the car in this time . Lets see you buy OR lease a car for a third of that cost ?

oldsguybry

This car has to go another couple years until I can hopefully get back on my feet financially . Then I have to basically replace everything I own , because it's all shot now . THEN I can think of a new ride , unless of course someone finds a new way to squeeze my savings from me like this spring .

Allan R

No offence Bryan, but that's exactly why, and it appears you have inherited that same issue you were hoping to avoid. IMO this car is going to penny ante you to death and for a 21 year old car, it's not worth even the $ you've spent on it so far, much less what it could end up costing you just to make it 100% safe. I had this exact issue with my 1995 Regency Elite - determining when to stop throwing money at it. Average retail on this car with low miles (after doing several web searches) appears to be less than 2000 now. I guess if you can get the brake/steering issue fixed for less, it might serve you well for the next while, but honestly I'd look around for something newer and more reliable. Note: early 90's Buicks were also problematic with their electrical and ignition systems. I have a Consumers report for this car and it shows the braking system in 93 LeSabre as a full black circle (worse than average) And yes, I know the history of why you bought it in the first place....

Not trying to be nasty, I feel your pain as I've been there myself. IMO, anytime you start having to spend more to maintain a DD than it's worth? Time to replace it. But, hey - it's your car and your money.

oldsguybry

This car WILL nickle & dime me to death if I keep it for too long , but before that time comes hopefully it will already be gone . I plan on keeping it a few more years if everything holds up after the brake fiasco .

I had to buy "A" new tire for the car today . I couldn't find a good used one , so I had to get a new one . I will also have to spend some more money tomorrow , and get rotors and pads for the wife's car .

rustyroger

[QUOTE=oldsguybry;710683
I had to buy "A" new tire for the car today . I couldn't find a good used one , so I had to get a new one . [/QUOTE]



And very few people ever find a "good" used tire. I help out a guy who runs a low end tire retailing business, many of his customers are people who have bought "good part worns" that have split sidewalls, insufficient tread, or bad vibration and wheel wobble issues that turn out to be damaged carcasses.
He can often sell them a brand new tire for maybe 30-50% more than they paid for their piece of junk not long ago.


Roger.

oldsguybry

I had my chance last year . The guy at Mr. P's tires had two tires for my car , and I was real low on funds so I went with only one at the time . I have no idea how I thought another $30+ was going to break the bank .... Oh Well , I bought the new one from him yesterday (P205-70R-15) , and had it mounted / balanced for $85 . I called a couple other places , and obviously they're profit zone is within the mounting/balancing aspect . The one place wanted $64 for the tire , with the total being just over $100 after mounting/balancing . The other guy answered the phone , and told me how he just got there and I should call him back in a half hour . Really ? I wonder if he's still waiting for my call .

oldsguybry

That's not good news

oldsguybry

Well , I replaced the rotors and pads on my wife's 01 Crapalier , and boy did it need it . The pads were real close to being completely gone . The car drives / brakes excellent now . I bought Bosch rotors , and they seem better then the ones I put on my Buick . They were $36 each . The ones I bought for the Buick were Wagner's , and they were $44 each .... Also the pistons on the Crapalier's calipers went in easier then the ones on my Buick did . The total cost for the Crapalier's pads and rotors was $108 including tax .

edit ... The A/C stopped working in the 01 Crapalier . I can hear the condenser's not kicking in , and it just blows warm air . The 10A fuse is ok under the hood , and of course I can't really tell if the relay is bad by just looking at it . I was reading that the condenser will not kick in if the A/C is out of charge . I was thinking of buying a can of R134 to put in there if applicable and see if it will work then .... Any thoughts ?

BTW ... The A/C works great in my Buick

oldsguybry

We took the 01 Cavalier up to the WI Dells , and the ride was great ! ( for a Cavalier ) The A/C didn't work though . I guess at this point I'm going to get a caliper for the Buick passenger side , and see what it does . My plan is to replace both sides seeing that the pistons pushed in kind of hard in comparison to the Cavalier . I'm not sure that this will solve the problem , but it narrows the field down to a couple of things . Then the hub assemblies if it comes to that .

edit ... There is one more thing the Cavalier needs is new struts . One is bad , so I will have to replace them at some point .

DJS70cutlass

The refrigerant has leaked out of the cavalier, filling it back up will restore function.........but only till it leaks out again Check for damage to the condenser, corroded lines or any AC component that is leaking something green and oily.

DJS70cutlass

And I've read this thread a few times, what is the problem your still having?

oldsguybry

Car still has a warped rotor feeling when braking . I figure it most likely is either one of the calipers or hub assemblies since I had not replaced those parts yet

oldsguybry

I'll have to look for that , thanks

oldsguybry

I replaced both calipers today on the Buick , and it seems like everything is good . I don't feel the warped rotor feeling when I hit the brakes , but it tricked me before . I'm going to give the final word on it in a few weeks .

I may have found something interesting while gravity bleeding the calipers ..... I was lightly tapping on the back of the caliper while the bleeder bolt was out , and every time I tapped it I noticed very small bubbles coming out of the bleeder hole . The question is , was I creating the bubbles by tapping on it , or was this method actually working the bubbles out quicker ? Just wondering .

Allan R

Good to hear your fix appears to be working. The bubbles were not caused by you tapping the caliper, they already were in the caliper. Tapping just helped them release from where they were clinging to the caliper and helped them find a quicker escape to atmosphere. Why did you take out the bleeder bolt?

oldsguybry

The only other thing I have to do with the Buick is get some resistors from Radio Shack for my bypass of the VATS system on the car . I already bypassed it , but I can't seem to find my extra resistor set ups in case this one would go bad .

I got this idea a couple years ago when the car wouldn't start . It was then that I noticed the flashing security light on the dash board . I found this awesome website that explains how to fix the problem / bypass it with very clear photos to go along with it . The guy who put this info online is a real life saver . It cost me like $10 to fix this problem .