Rust Issue; bottom of rear window

[Texas Jim]

Bought a '71 Olds 98 f/ the 455 ci engine and TH400 tranny to install in my '62 Ford pick-up. After years of looking, I finally found what I feel is the perfect choice f/ this project. But after driving the 98 f/ a week or so, I fell in love w/ the way it drives and rides, has 93,300 miles on it, and everything works perfectly not to mention the body is so straight that there aren't even any parking lot door dings. Anyway...
Just under the rear window, after removing the chrome trim on the vinyl top, I'm going w/ a painted top, I found that the metal there is rusted through quite badly w/ approx. one inch holes staggered from one side to the other from the bottom of the window about an inch out. I figure that I'll need to cut that out, make a template, cut a piece of sheet metal using the template and then weld the piece in. Questions: 1.) Am I on the right track? 2.) Is there another way to do it? 3.) Do any companies sell that particular panel? I'm not totally lost when it comes to body work, but my thing is the mechanical end;engines, drive tranes, suspensions, etc. I feel that I'm best off asking the professionals as to the correct way to go w/ this rust repair.
Thanks in advance.

[Olds64]

I did a similar repair to my 1971 Olds 98 4 door hardtop. Check it out!

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...ar-window.html

You should definitely cut out the rust and weld in a new panel if you have the skill to do it. I can only weld rat turds so I used body filler, rust neutralizer, and Rust-O-Leum paint to fix my rear window channel. Luckily the damage to mine wasn't that bad.

BTW, there isn't a company that makes aftermarket panels for the B and C bodies.

[Dan Wirth]

I had a similar problem with a 69 Chevy, where water leaked into the corners of the back window, lower panel and made its way to the interior of the car - fairly common to this car. When I removed the chrome around the rear window, I saw rust and holes along the panel - took it to a body shop and they cut out the rust near both corners and welded in a new pieces.

[Texas Jim]

Thanks f/ the replies. Olds64: Went through your repair work on the site. Thanks. Mine isn't quite as large an area as your's was, more smaller holes only along the bottom, but from one side to the other just the same. The rust is isolated to only that area, so I'm going w/ cutting out that section and installing a piece of sheet metal. As clean as the rest of the car is, it's a shame that one part is just the opposite.
Dan: The '69 Chevy sounds like my kind of ride. I grew up on the 50s and 60s Chevies as there were so many hot Chevies on the road back then when gas was cheap and big valve heads were factory items. How things have changed. And I'd have never thought I'd become so interested in a big block Olds engine, a 427 Chevy would have been more my style.

[Dan Wirth]

That 69 Chevy was a dreamboat of a car, and my first restoration project back in the late 80's. I did a foolish thing though, I bought a new 350 Target engine for it, replacing the original 327 (many things blew on a long trip) that I donated to the shop that did the work. This was a big mistake, as I now believe it was the best engine that chevy ever made.

However, If I had it to do all over again, I would have had this engine rebuilt and kept it with the car. (Hindsight I guess...)

Good luck getting your panel fixed.

[Texas Jim]

Originally Posted by Dan Wirth

That 69 Chevy was a dreamboat of a car, and my first restoration project back in the late 80's. I did a foolish thing though, I bought a new 350 Target engine for it, replacing the original 327 (many things blew on a long trip) that I donated to the shop that did the work. This was a big mistake, as I now believe it was the best engine that chevy ever made.

However, If I had it to do all over again, I would have had this engine rebuilt and kept it with the car. (Hindsight I guess...)

Good luck getting your panel fixed.

Yes, I've read in afew different places over the years that the 327 was a great combo of bore, stroke, and rod length. I've also read that the 383, a bored 350 w/ the 3.75" stroke crank (originally from the small block 400) and the 5.7 or 6" rod is almost as good a combo as the 327. I remember a guy in our neighborhood buying a new '64 red 'Vette convertible w/ the 327/365 (I think that was the first year f/ the 365hp) and how it would squat when he'd get in the gas. There weren't many of those around at the time and that was quite a car. I was a car nut even then, and I remember looking at that car early one Sunday morning as it sat infront of his Aunt's house on Grand St. like it was yesterday.

[Destructor]

I have to get my window removed also, a minor leak has gotten worse. The water comes in at the top and follows the inside of the glass to the bottom. Luckily in the past a towel at the bottom sopped up what little got in during washing but I suspect my window channel needs at the very least a good cleaning and a reseal. I'll have it primed and painted while the window is out. Hopefully that's all it will require.

[1973olds98]

I also had the same problem...I cut the metal out and replaced it.....

[jimjr]

I repaired the rust spots on my 67 Cutlass by cutting out the bad areas with a Dremel tool with a #426 reinforced cut off wheel. The tool setup is great for cutting out small areas and also allows you to grind off the rust both on the outside and inside surfaces of the sheet metal. You can burnish the surfaces right down to shiny metal and degrease (I used contact cleaner). I then used PC-7 two part epoxy to fill the areas. I actually smeared some of the epoxy around the under side of the metal using my finger and then smeared it around the outside surface in the same fashion. I used small swatches of fiberglass wall board reinforcing tape along with the epoxy to do the filling. Apply the epoxy in several thin coats, allowing the previous layer to cure and rough up between layers. I scuffed up the final application and finished it off with fiberglass reinforced Bondo. This has held up really nice for almost two years now and the primer & paint never actually sees the epoxy under the Bondo so they bond together fine. The PC-7 is really sticky when applying but hardens up like steel and can be worked over with the Dremel tool or larger sander. Good luck with your project! Jim

[Texas Jim]

Originally Posted by jimjr

I repaired the rust spots on my 67 Cutlass by cutting out the bad areas with a Dremel tool with a #426 reinforced cut off wheel. The tool setup is great for cutting out small areas and also allows you to grind off the rust both on the outside and inside surfaces of the sheet metal. You can burnish the surfaces right down to shiny metal and degrease (I used contact cleaner). I then used PC-7 two part epoxy to fill the areas. I actually smeared some of the epoxy around the under side of the metal using my finger and then smeared it around the outside surface in the same fashion. I used small swatches of fiberglass wall board reinforcing tape along with the epoxy to do the filling. Apply the epoxy in several thin coats, allowing the previous layer to cure and rough up between layers. I scuffed up the final application and finished it off with fiberglass reinforced Bondo. This has held up really nice for almost two years now and the primer & paint never actually sees the epoxy under the Bondo so they bond together fine. The PC-7 is really sticky when applying but hardens up like steel and can be worked over with the Dremel tool or larger sander. Good luck with your project! Jim

Jimjr, Thanks f/ the info on the epoxy. That's something I hadn't thought of and may be an easier route than using sheet metal. Since the bondo bonds well to the epoxy, it sounds like a great way to go. As soon as the sun starts coming up this morning, I'm going to take the vinyl top off and clean the roof. I wanted to do it yesterday, but ended up installing a new front door on the house,the door has been sitting here f/ two weeks haunting me. LOL.
I have to say, this site is a very friendly place, also very different than any other car sites I frequent. (f/ my 'Vette) The good 'Vette site has some very knowledgeable members, but afew big headed jerks come along w/ the package. (f/ my '62 Ford pick-up) The hot rod sites I frequent are quite serious guys who are into in-depth custom work, and there's no room f/ humor. (f/ the hydraulic work I've done-I have a complete set of ProHopper hydraulics, w/ accumulators-f/ a super smooth ride) The lowrider site (LIL) is very big w/ ALOT of very knowledgeable people, girls included, and is good f/ streety type humor and joking among members, a place I enjoy checking out often. Good hearted people there f/ sure. Since I bought the Olds, I've found this site to be a totally different breed. Great people, friendly, knowledgable, hands on guys f/ sure-something I'm right there w/, and so many prople into the exact things I'm dealing w/, I know due to the site being broken down into perfect smaller areas. I'm not just glad that I bought that big-a__ Olds, but very glad that I found this site. Thanks again, jimjr.

[jimjr]

Just got back to this thread. I hope the epoxy works as well for you as it did for me! Keep me posted. Good luck and take care. Happy Motoring! Jim

[therobski]

HMMM I also just discovered when I had my rear window removed last weekend on my 67 that indeed there are a few holes in the downturn were the body panel meets the glass where you would never see but it leaked just a tiny bit. I was going to have a restoration center that I know very well fix it for me until he told me that because my car was painted white with " mother of all pearl" it will never match. I knew that going in, but he make it more clear. Here is what he told me to do or (he would do and charge me accordingly). These few holes are big as a dimes-get some expanding spray foam and some epoxy from Home Depot or whatever. Fill in the holes with the spray foam, let it expand and dry. The purpose is to fill the hole, allowing something that bonds surrounding the hole inside and out and then cut the excess off that sticks out of the hole your fixing. Then appy thin coats of epoxy over the hole. The epoxy will then have something to adhere too. He said don't use thin strips of resin mat and fiberglass it. Makes sense to me I am going to give it go. FYI-I am going to treat the rusted area with Eastwood Rust Encapsulator on a brush first.

[Texas Jim]

The foam spray sounds like a winner, as it takes the place of trying to place backing f/ any filler to be used. I'm now wanting to sell this car as I'm dead set on using the engine and tranny in my '62 pick-up, but if I'm to get someone to buy this body, I'll need to address the rust problem first. There are afew "Big Body" car clubs in this area, so I may have some luck. The car is just too clean to drag off to the salvage yard.
You guys are alot of help and I've yet to see anyone starting any "trash" w/ another member, something that's a drag and happens frequently on the other sites. I guess it's just due to the type of people who own Oldsmobiles, seem to be my kind of people.
I love the looks of that white hard top. Vinyl tops should have been outlawed before they were ever installed on cars.

[therobski]

It worked, (talking about the lower rear window area on a 67 A-body) when the foam expands out of the hole be patient let it dry and then I used a razzor blade to cut off the excess to match the rest of the panel as best I could. I mixed up some epoxy and brushed over the foam area. It's Solid- the whole idea was the foam expands behind the hole to the good metal and gives a solid place for the epoxy to cover what was the rust hole. Tomorrow for the hell of it I am going to go over all that and the rest of the sanded off rust spots with Eastwood Rust-incapsulator. Window man comes back out for the re-install Sunday before the Cowboy game (nite game) I am also taking advantage of the space without a windshield ( no holes in the front windshield area just suface rust) and restoring that part on the dash-new dark blue paint-pretty If I ever live long enough and want to repaint the car back to it's original silver blue I will replace the panel then but for now it works, and should not have any problems for years, and you cannot see it.

[Texas Jim]

Originally Posted by therobski

It worked, (talking about the lower rear window area on a 67 A-body) when the foam expands out of the hole be patient let it dry and then I used a razzor blade to cut off the excess to match the rest of the panel as best I could. I mixed up some epoxy and brushed over the foam area. It's Solid- the whole idea was the foam expands behind the hole to the good metal and gives a solid place for the epoxy to cover what was the rust hole. Tomorrow for the hell of it I am going to go over all that and the rest of the sanded off rust spots with Eastwood Rust-incapsulator. Window man comes back out for the re-install Sunday before the Cowboy game (nite game) I am also taking advantage of the space without a windshield ( no holes in the front windshield area just suface rust) and restoring that part on the dash-new dark blue paint-pretty If I ever live long enough and want to repaint the car back to it's original silver blue I will replace the panel then but for now it works, and should not have any problems for years, and you cannot see it.

robski,
Yes, that foam is a great idea. I've used it in "building" a number of times in the past. I've even seen afew jerks break windows by using too much of that stuff and filling the void completely next to the window, and when it expanded, it put enough pressure on the window to crack it severely. I suppose they should have read the instructions. This is one item/product that the old saying, "when all else fails, read the instructions" just doesn't apply to, as by then it's just too late. LOL. Again, thanks f/ the info. I'm not going to keep the car, but I am going to fix the rust around the back window and sand the vinyl top glue/foam from the roof so the body looks respectable, more apt to sell, and the "board of health" doesn't come after me. LOL. "Is that the police behind us w/ the lights flashing?" "No, it's the Health Dept. wanting to see what kind of hair the roof is growing." I'll post the "after" pics when I'm done.