Army_Vet

I finally got around to pulling the oil pan off the engine I bought from a salvage yard. The car had been sitting since around 1985. I already know the engine had been out of the car - it had an OJ transmission from a '70 Toronado. I think this engine has been apart from the rod stampings. All of the rods have an "O" on the bottom cap with the exception of the number 7. What does this "O" mean? As you will see in the next set of photos I post, the number 7 rod is marked with a "5" at an angle from the other number "5" rod.

Right now I am trying to free this engine. Any advice on what to use?

Army_Vet

I found out AFTER I got this engine home that it has a forged crank. Not too bad for $300.

tinner

Try using Kerosene to soak the cylinders. I can tell you that my '69 Toro engine didn't have the rods numbered. Perhaps yours had been rebuilt a long time ago....

Army_Vet

Right now, I have the right bank of cylinders level with PB Blaster sprayed in through the spark plug holes. I just went out and checked, and cylinders 2,4 and 8 have allowed the PB Blaster to seep around the pistons. I sprayed more in number 6 and will let it soak for a week before checking it again. I will get some kerosene to add as well. The cylinder walls have no rust on them, but I'm sure the rings are rusted where they currently sit.

2blu442

Many years ago an old timer told me he used a combination of kerosene, transmission fluid and mint oil. I don't remember the ratio of each, or the significance of the mint oil but I watched him free an old Rambler engine that had froze up. He told me the mixture worked like a charm and that he'd used it many times before with success. For what its worth....

John

Octania

Acetone and ATF is the current favorite voodoo juice

I have gotten a rusted steel check ball out of a carb with Evaporust. It easts rust.

good score on a forged crank, so the '68 Toro likely to have forged crank story has more credibility.

MDchanic

... And just to confirm: Those stamped numbers are NOT factory.

I agree. Nice forged crank.

- Eric

Army_Vet

I figured as much. I guess I won't fully know what was done until I get it completely apart.

Magna86

Yep that engine has been rebuilt before. When you pull the heads you could see some oversized pistons. But it may still have factory pistons and had the rods/crank redone if it spun a bearing. Good score on forged crank

2blu442

Are you sure the crank is forged? The reason I ask this is I'm used to seeing a wide line on forged cranks, but a narrow line on cast ones. Here's a few pictures comparing a forged 425 crank (left) to a cast 455 crank (right). The first picture shows the wide line I was describing. Then the numbers on the forged are typically more faint, not as sharp and crisp as the cast. Lastly the end where the flexplate attaches has a check mark notch in it with the forged and a u shaped one on the cast. Don't get me wrong, I think you've still got a good engine. Just want to clarify for you if the crank is cast or forged. John

DSCN3527.jpg

DSCN3529.jpg

DSCN3530.jpg

DSCN3533.jpg

Army_Vet

Here are some more pictures of the crankshaft. I am pretty sure this is forged.

2blu442

I agree! Can you post the number in the lobe closest to the flywheel end?

John

MDchanic

John, I agree that your sense of the width of the parting line looked correct in this picture, and made me question my own statement,



but my impression was based on a sort of a gestalt from this picture,



in which the visible counterweight, just ahead of #3 bearing, just... looks... like a forged counterweight.

The additional pictures do seem to clarify, though.

I am curious to see another photo of the parting line to see just how wide it is, myself.

- Eric

2blu442

I hope it is a 455 forged crank, that would be way cool for the OP. The check mark does looks different than on the 425 cranks I've seen. But I also know one can put a 425 rotating assembly into a 455 block. That's why I asked for the number off the lobe, that will confirm if it is a 455 crank or not.

John

Army_Vet

I would get that number if I could spin the crank.

MDchanic

Details...

- Eric

Army_Vet

The engine is stuck. I put the pan back on and sprayed PB Blaster in the right bank. I could not see the forge number with the current orientation of the crank in the block. Without freeing up the engine, I would have to completely disassemble the engine just to get the number. I am going to try to free the stuck pistons first.

2blu442

Oh well, when you get it rotating let us know what number you find on the crank.

John

MDchanic

I meant that as a joke. Bloody internet.

- Eric

rob1960

A forged crank shouldn't have the big "N"(cast nodular iron) at the front of the crank. Nice score on that engine!! Hope you get her freed up. Your crank does look forged though, the edges of the counter weights look to rounded to be a cast crank.

Octania

Gentlemen, there is no doubt.

With rare small block exception, only forged cranks have the *two* sided notch on the crank rear flange OD.

The 425 has the "L" with a sharp corner as we see above in post #10 final photo

The 455 has the "J" with a rounded corner and exaggerated long side, as we see above in #11 final photo

schlitzguzzler1

I was always told that all 68, 69 (and possibly 70) Toro engines came with forged cranks. 98/88 455s was a hit n miss.

Army_Vet

It seems as though I am wasting my time with this engine. It appears that the pistons are original, which means no overbore. I am beginning to think my best option is to yank the forged crank and scrap the rest.

Has anyone ever salvaged an engine in a condition like this one?

Is it me or does the piston in cylinder #5 look different from the rest?

MDchanic

With a complete rebuild, including reboring, yes (provided that the block isn't cracked, that is).


It's you.

- Eric

Charlie Jones

I freed up a badly rusted Lincoln V-12 once by hammering on the top of the pistons with a piece of oak 4X4 and a sledgehammer . After removing as many of the "free" pistons and rods as I could.
It broke the ring lands and cracked the pistons , but they were junk anyway.

Charlie Jones

I freed up a badly rusted Lincoln V-12 once by hammering on the top of the pistons with a piece of oak 4X4 and a sledgehammer . After removing as many of the "free" pistons and rods as I could.
It broke the ring lands and cracked the pistons , but they were junk anyway.

cherokeepeople

i have found that with olds you never know what your gonna get for a crank.had a 74 455 that every journal had a different size bearing,and a 76 98 that had a 4spd crank.

bw1339

0.030" bore should clean up those bores quite nicely.

Put some penetrating oil in those cylinders for a few days and you'll be able to pound the old pistons out.

jimmyT

Probably a rehab shop stamp, used the "O" for Olds. When building several engines it would be VERY bad to mix up the rod caps

jimmyT

Geez, right tool for the job kidz...leave the hammer in the toolbox for a while. Soak that thing in oil for 2 weeks, use w wire wheel on the rist and break out the honing stones. Be smart and take you time getting them out instead of straight off brute force. Don't buy your .30 over pistons just yet till you see where you are. You may need to go to .60 depending on what the machine numbers are... Do yourself a favor and don't do cast pistons. I made that mistake and pulled a wrist pin out of the piston when pushing the red line in a race--not a pretty sound. Scored the hell out of the block and had to find a new one and start all over. Lessons learned the hard way, go easy on the hammer and water...pay for the good stuff cause it's worth it in the long run

Octania

meh, dry it out and treat with evaporust.

It literally eats rust but leaves the base steel unscathed.

But, blocks are plentiful here, so in practice I would cut the rods, extract the crank, and press on.

edzolz

I have never seen a forged crank with the large hole in the first journal like this one has or seen one with the "N". reference post number 10 and 13.

Army_Vet

Look up Trovato's book on Oldsmobile engines. He clearly stated that the lightening hole is what differentiates a forged 425 crank from a forged 455 crank. Post #10 is not my crank.