Should I attempt to

OldsMuscle · 04-20-2008, 10:48 AM

build my 455? I have recently bought a 455 for my 72 cutlass and had intentions of having a machine shop do the whole job of rebuilding my motor(because I have never done it before) but as I tore down the motor I reliazed that it is not as complicated as I had thought. I did not grow up with a love for cars like most had, I grew up dealing with cars like my mother had...Take it to the shop. I have now gotten older and have found that I like to do the work myself on my car.

So I guess my real question is should I attempt to assmble the lower end of motor myself? or should I rely on the shop to do that?

thx

Olds64 · 04-20-2008, 11:44 AM

You should let the shop assemble the short block. You won't be able to do the machine work yourself if you don't have any of the machines.

OldsMuscle · 04-20-2008, 11:55 AM

Yeah your right there no machine shop in my garage

I just thought it might be fun to learn to put the goodies in the block, but I see your point.

thanks again

2blu442 · 04-20-2008, 12:46 PM

It would be good if you had a buddy with you that had done it before. But for the actual assembly once the machine shop does their work I believe you could assemble it yourself. My 2 cents. John

Oldsmaniac · 04-20-2008, 03:35 PM

Yes it is true that if the machine shop did things right the engine will go together easily but if you have never done it before there will be questions and uncertainty about things and re-assembly must follow procedure. To spend hard earned dollars on new parts and machine work you wouldnt want it all to go bad because of a mistake during assembly. If ya had an assistant who has done it before and preferrably with an Olds then go ahead.

OldsMuscle · 04-20-2008, 05:40 PM

well I guess you guys have convinced me to just let the shop do this motor, and I may just have the machine work done on the 350 that I pull and learn on it. Figure I cant learn if I dont try, worked well this far in life might as well try this too. Thanks for the help on making the decision easier for me, as I was tetering on the edge.

geckonz08 · 04-21-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldsMuscle

well I guess you guys have convinced me to just let the shop do this motor, and I may just have the machine work done on the 350 that I pull and learn on it. Figure I cant learn if I dont try, worked well this far in life might as well try this too. Thanks for the help on making the decision easier for me, as I was tetering on the edge.

if it`s any consolation, I intend to pull down , and after shop machine work ,reconstruct a 425 olds toro.On top of that there is the fitting into a 307 powered cadillac ,locating and fitting all extras etc etc
I HAVE NEVER DONE AN ENGINE BEFORE .
See you @ the strip to see whose engine goes first!!!

Go for it

Omicron · 04-21-2008, 08:04 PM

Have the shop machine the block and, if you've got the money to do so, test fit everything - then give it to you in a big box of parts to do yourself. There's nothing quite like firing up a motor you built yourself, then realizing it's got enough power to twist the back tires right off.

Oldsguy · 04-22-2008, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omicron

...then realizing it's got enough power to twist the back tires right off.

torque baby, torque

70oldsW30 · 04-22-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldsMuscle

build my 455? I have recently bought a 455 for my 72 cutlass and had intentions of having a machine shop do the whole job of rebuilding my motor(because I have never done it before) but as I tore down the motor I reliazed that it is not as complicated as I had thought. I did not grow up with a love for cars like most had, I grew up dealing with cars like my mother had...Take it to the shop. I have now gotten older and have found that I like to do the work myself on my car.

So I guess my real question is should I attempt to assmble the lower end of motor myself? or should I rely on the shop to do that?

thx

There is no reason that you cannot assemble the motor yourself. You'll need some pointers here and there but, in my opinion, there is absolutely no reason not to do so and you'll be glad that you did.

Omicron · 04-22-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70oldsW30

There is no reason that you cannot assemble the motor yourself. You'll need some pointers here and there but, in my opinion, there is absolutely no reason not to do so and you'll be glad that you did.

I completely agree.

Dapapadon · 04-22-2008, 05:19 PM

Check this out:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

Don

88 coupe · 04-22-2008, 05:38 PM

Or this: http://www.mondellotwister.com/Rebui...irstEngine.pdf

Norm

70oldsW30 · 04-23-2008, 08:30 AM

I have to be honest, I think Joe might be overemphasizing a few things here and there in his narrative. I didn't find anything that I would consider a true pointer - meaning don't NOT do this - until midway through the second paragraph.

Had to add pointer 0: always ask if you have a question.

My first pointer is: do not get all froggy and disassamble the reciprocating assembly before you ask why and why is so you can number the rods - both parts, rod and rod cap. You should buy a set of numeral stamps to do this with but I've seen (ok, I admit and used) a center punch just making the right number of dots to equal the cylider number. First, make sure that you know how the cylinders are numbered and then, without getting screwed up because the motor is upside down, stamp the cylinder number on the flat surface of the rod that is just down the side of the rod from the rod bolt on the outside of the rod. There is a surface there on both the rod and the rod cap so that you stamp the numeral on each piece right together. All punched numerals should face the same side of the block that the cylinder is on. This procedure will be a check that the machine shop has properly fit the pistons on the rods, that the rod cap is properly oriented on the rod and that you have the piston installed correctly in the intended cylinder.

I went ahead and put this in just in case you are in a hurry. If you missed it you are still ok, though.

Dapapadon · 04-23-2008, 09:16 PM

Very good pointer about numbering the rods 70oldsW30! I've always done it. For what it's worth, I bought a set of stamps at Harbor Freight last summer. They're 1/8", work great & were only $5-10. (Can't remember)

And the part about numbering individual rods on the side towards the outside of the block is like a second tip. It's easier to stamp the rods this way. Plus, as you stated, helps get everything back together correctly.

I've yet to rebuild an Olds motor. But on others I generally stamp the #2, 3 & 4 main caps and block. The front and rears only go one way.

Don

70oldsW30 · 04-24-2008, 08:08 AM

Man, where's that hand-slapping-the-forehead smiley when you really need it? Yes, number the main bearing caps in order, as well, and with the number nudged towards the front edge of the cap so it is easy to get each one on right going back in.

Again, not doing these is not critical if the motor is going for a full rebuild but, for a number of little reasons, it is good practice and during disassembly is the right time to do it. If the main caps came off and might have gotten mixed up without marking them then just make sure to get the block line honed - which should be done anyway.

VWBeamer · 04-26-2008, 05:52 AM

I have built several engines, and I have even been in magazines and on the speed channel. I can tell you there is no black magic in assembling an engine. It's all paying attention to details, working in a clean shop, and not getting in a hurry.

No one cares more about your engine than you do. You should assemble it yourself, and you should also do the quality control on the machine shops work. machine shops can and do make mistakes. If you do not assemble the engine your self, you have no way of checking their work. Do your homework. Know what clearances you need/want before you go to the machine shop. Be specific in what you want. Don't put you engines future in someone elses hands.

The few special tools you need will pay for themselves many times in your life time. It would be rare to build one engine, then stop.

I encourage you to read, read, and read. Take your time, ask questions. Don't get in a hurry. make sure every part is absolutly clean. research clearances, bearing, ring gaps, etc. Make sure every nut is torqued correctly. If you have a question, ask it, and don't accept the first answer.

Take your time, build it yourself, you will feel better and more than likely end up with a better product.

Oldsguy · 04-26-2008, 06:57 AM

Vdub is right. I would say "amen" to your complete post brother. There is no way to measure the satisfaction and pride in being able to say "I did this" and point to your newly rebuilt engine. And, knowledge is a very, very powerful tool and the longer you let it absorb the more valuable it is.

88 coupe · 04-26-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldsmaniac

........ you wouldnt want it all to go bad because of a mistake during assembly .........

Or a failure to catch a mistake, either by the machine shop, the manufacturer of the parts, or the person that gave them the specs.

Assembly, is the final step in the quality control process. If the shop does it, they own any/all problems. If you do it right, there will be no problems.

Anyone can put the pieces together in the proper order. Finding and recognizing potential issues is what separates the men from the boys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70oldsW30

........ If the main caps came off and might have gotten mixed up without marking them then just make sure to get the block line honed ........

Yeah, simple as that? How much beer would $300.00 (or more) buy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70oldsW30

........ which should be done anyway.

Only if needed. And it seldom is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VWBeamer

........ and don't accept the first answer ........

What if the first one is correct?

Norm

bobhadd71 · 04-26-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldsMuscle

build my 455? I have recently bought a 455 for my 72 cutlass and had intentions of having a machine shop do the whole job of rebuilding my motor(because I have never done it before) but as I tore down the motor I reliazed that it is not as complicated as I had thought. I did not grow up with a love for cars like most had, I grew up dealing with cars like my mother had...Take it to the shop. I have now gotten older and have found that I like to do the work myself on my car.

So I guess my real question is should I attempt to assmble the lower end of motor myself? or should I rely on the shop to do that?

thx

bobhadd71 · 04-26-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldsMuscle

build my 455? I have recently bought a 455 for my 72 cutlass and had intentions of having a machine shop do the whole job of rebuilding my motor(because I have never done it before) but as I tore down the motor I reliazed that it is not as complicated as I had thought. I did not grow up with a love for cars like most had, I grew up dealing with cars like my mother had...Take it to the shop. I have now gotten older and have found that I like to do the work myself on my car.

So I guess my real question is should I attempt to assmble the lower end of motor myself? or should I rely on the shop to do that?

thx

Since I didn't have the time or know how when I built my 350, I had the machine shop build the bottom end and I did the rest. I gave me a real under standing how things work. And when I had to work on the motor I was really familiar with the process. Good luck. I'm about to build a 455 to replace the 350 and I plan to do all the build up myself. Good Luck Again.

Oldsguy · 04-27-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88 coupe

What if the first one is correct?Norm

Hopefully, after listening to all answers and reading and researching for one's self one would then know it is correct. However, if the first answer was not correct, it could end up being a very expensive mistake accepting it as being so.

88 coupe · 04-28-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldsguy

Hopefully, after listening to all answers ........

Thanks for the insight. It explains a lot.

Norm

70oldsW30 · 04-29-2008, 09:14 AM

88 coupe I feel I must owe you an apology.

I apologize. Yes, align hone if necessary.
I apologize. I don't understand why an align hone would not alleviate any problem and would appreciate having it explained to me.
I apologize. I do not understand about $300 worth of beer, either.

I think that your post contained a lot of good advice.

88 coupe · 04-30-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70oldsW30

........ I feel I must owe you an apology ........

Apologies should be directed to those who read the misinformation, not to those who correct it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70oldsW30

........ I don't understand why an align hone would not alleviate any problem ........

Far easier (cheaper) to put the caps back in their proper order, although not as easy as if they were marked before removal.

Line bore/hone process moves the crank centerline, higher in the block, which shortens the distance between the crank and cam. This makes more slack in the timing chain, and causes the main seals to be slightly off center.

Time and expense aside, the operation should only be performed if actually needed. When replacing bolts with studs, for instance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70oldsW30

........ I do not understand about $300 worth of beer ........

My favorite analogy. Re: Cash spent unnecessarily..

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88Coupe

The only difference between pizzing away good money on unnecessary parts/labor, and the same dollar value on beer is, the beer will provide some enjoyment before the pizzing takes place.

Norm

70oldsW30 · 04-30-2008, 12:40 PM

Misinformation happens. I work as an engineer and I have little patience for misinformation … or, unsubstantiated claims, for that matter. Besides that, I moderate on a rather large website (more than 108,000 members to date) and I have to deal with misinformation every day in a venue where there can be much more at stake than an Oldsmobile block. Somehow I manage to do it with a smile on my face as opposed to a sneer. Rather than snide comments you might consider that the original poster, myself and every other of the countless thousands that might read this page are better served by a simple explanation given your opinion or knowledge.

I have never align bored an Oldsmobile block and do not intend to do so. I used the term align hone deliberately. I might note that it was you that interjected a “bore/home” into your version of my reply. What came to me as simply lore from ol' Joe when I was 18 years old that I have never had need to question further is that if it cannot be honed straight then it is too much to go. I cannot provide numbers such as tolerances or anything else specific because I really have never had to much deal with such a problem. And/or I’m just a simple guy that manages to get by on what little I can squeeze out from between my ears. Since we have established that you know more than I do - which is no real big trick - perhaps you can actually provide us with some tolerances beyond which a block should never be align honed or the tolerable distance between centerlines of cam and main bearing saddles that cause too much slop in the timing gear. This wou

04-20-2008, 10:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
OldsMuscle Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3	Should I attempt to build my 455? I have recently bought a 455 for my 72 cutlass and had intentions of having a machine shop do the whole job of rebuilding my motor(because I have never done it before) but as I tore down the motor I reliazed that it is not as complicated as I had thought. I did not grow up with a love for cars like most had, I grew up dealing with cars like my mother had...Take it to the shop. I have now gotten older and have found that I like to do the work myself on my car. So I guess my real question is should I attempt to assmble the lower end of motor myself? or should I rely on the shop to do that? thx

04-20-2008, 11:44 AM	#2 (permalink)
Olds64 Landyacht Club President Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lawton, OK Posts: 1,088	You should let the shop assemble the short block. You won't be able to do the machine work yourself if you don't have any of the machines. __________________ "Some men are Baptists, others Catholics. My father was an OLDSMOBILE man." Ralphie Billingsley A Christmas Story 1983 "We rei-eign, supreme, ooooh god! Burrito supreme, and a chicken supreme, and a CUTLASS SUPREME!" Tenacious D 2007

04-20-2008, 12:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
2blu442 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Medford, Oregon Posts: 775	It would be good if you had a buddy with you that had done it before. But for the actual assembly once the machine shop does their work I believe you could assemble it yourself. My 2 cents. John __________________ 1964 Cutlass Factory 4spd 1965 442 4spd 1967 442 Auto 1967 Cutlass Convertible 1968 442 Auto 1969 442 W30 Auto 1970 442 4spd 1971 Cutlass Flat Top Wagon 1973 Che*vy 3/4 Ton 454/TH400 Tow Vehicle Only the tow vehicle is finished!

04-20-2008, 03:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Oldsmaniac Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 350	Yes it is true that if the machine shop did things right the engine will go together easily but if you have never done it before there will be questions and uncertainty about things and re-assembly must follow procedure. To spend hard earned dollars on new parts and machine work you wouldnt want it all to go bad because of a mistake during assembly. If ya had an assistant who has done it before and preferrably with an Olds then go ahead. __________________ OCA Member 2587 '59 98 conv. '66 Starfire '66 Delta Fact.4spd '66 Delta conv. times 2 '67 442 conv. '68 Cutlass conv. '70 Rallye 350 '92 Custom Cruiser

04-22-2008, 05:38 PM	#13 (permalink)
88 coupe Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Southern CA Posts: 737	Or this: http://www.mondellotwister.com/Rebui...irstEngine.pdf Norm __________________ I love the reaction when they find out it's not a Big Block Chev . . . . . . . It gets even better when they find it's all Olds.

04-20-2008, 11:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
OldsMuscle Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3	Yeah your right there no machine shop in my garage I just thought it might be fun to learn to put the goodies in the block, but I see your point. thanks again

04-20-2008, 05:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
OldsMuscle Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3	well I guess you guys have convinced me to just let the shop do this motor, and I may just have the machine work done on the 350 that I pull and learn on it. Figure I cant learn if I dont try, worked well this far in life might as well try this too. Thanks for the help on making the decision easier for me, as I was tetering on the edge.

04-21-2008, 08:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Omicron Administrator & Motorhead Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Boulder County, Colorado Posts: 125	Have the shop machine the block and, if you've got the money to do so, test fit everything - then give it to you in a big box of parts to do yourself. There's nothing quite like firing up a motor you built yourself, then realizing it's got enough power to twist the back tires right off.

04-22-2008, 05:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dapapadon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 219	Check this out: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us Don

04-23-2008, 08:30 AM	#14 (permalink)
70oldsW30 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: houston Posts: 35	I have to be honest, I think Joe might be overemphasizing a few things here and there in his narrative. I didn't find anything that I would consider a true pointer - meaning don't NOT do this - until midway through the second paragraph. Had to add pointer 0: always ask if you have a question. My first pointer is: do not get all froggy and disassamble the reciprocating assembly before you ask why and why is so you can number the rods - both parts, rod and rod cap. You should buy a set of numeral stamps to do this with but I've seen (ok, I admit and used) a center punch just making the right number of dots to equal the cylider number. First, make sure that you know how the cylinders are numbered and then, without getting screwed up because the motor is upside down, stamp the cylinder number on the flat surface of the rod that is just down the side of the rod from the rod bolt on the outside of the rod. There is a surface there on both the rod and the rod cap so that you stamp the numeral on each piece right together. All punched numerals should face the same side of the block that the cylinder is on. This procedure will be a check that the machine shop has properly fit the pistons on the rods, that the rod cap is properly oriented on the rod and that you have the piston installed correctly in the intended cylinder. I went ahead and put this in just in case you are in a hurry. If you missed it you are still ok, though. Last edited by 70oldsW30 : 04-23-2008 at 08:33 AM.

04-23-2008, 09:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
Dapapadon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 219	Very good pointer about numbering the rods 70oldsW30! I've always done it. For what it's worth, I bought a set of stamps at Harbor Freight last summer. They're 1/8", work great & were only $5-10. (Can't remember) And the part about numbering individual rods on the side towards the outside of the block is like a second tip. It's easier to stamp the rods this way. Plus, as you stated, helps get everything back together correctly. I've yet to rebuild an Olds motor. But on others I generally stamp the #2, 3 & 4 main caps and block. The front and rears only go one way. Don

04-24-2008, 08:08 AM	#16 (permalink)
70oldsW30 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: houston Posts: 35	Man, where's that hand-slapping-the-forehead smiley when you really need it? Yes, number the main bearing caps in order, as well, and with the number nudged towards the front edge of the cap so it is easy to get each one on right going back in. Again, not doing these is not critical if the motor is going for a full rebuild but, for a number of little reasons, it is good practice and during disassembly is the right time to do it. If the main caps came off and might have gotten mixed up without marking them then just make sure to get the block line honed - which should be done anyway. Last edited by 70oldsW30 : 04-24-2008 at 08:11 AM.

04-26-2008, 05:52 AM	#17 (permalink)
VWBeamer Oldsmobile Virgin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: macon,GA Posts: 21	I have built several engines, and I have even been in magazines and on the speed channel. I can tell you there is no black magic in assembling an engine. It's all paying attention to details, working in a clean shop, and not getting in a hurry. No one cares more about your engine than you do. You should assemble it yourself, and you should also do the quality control on the machine shops work. machine shops can and do make mistakes. If you do not assemble the engine your self, you have no way of checking their work. Do your homework. Know what clearances you need/want before you go to the machine shop. Be specific in what you want. Don't put you engines future in someone elses hands. The few special tools you need will pay for themselves many times in your life time. It would be rare to build one engine, then stop. I encourage you to read, read, and read. Take your time, ask questions. Don't get in a hurry. make sure every part is absolutly clean. research clearances, bearing, ring gaps, etc. Make sure every nut is torqued correctly. If you have a question, ask it, and don't accept the first answer. Take your time, build it yourself, you will feel better and more than likely end up with a better product.

04-26-2008, 06:57 AM	#18 (permalink)
Oldsguy Administrator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lees Summit MO Posts: 2,553	Vdub is right. I would say "amen" to your complete post brother. There is no way to measure the satisfaction and pride in being able to say "I did this" and point to your newly rebuilt engine. And, knowledge is a very, very powerful tool and the longer you let it absorb the more valuable it is. __________________ Dan '46 2 door

04-29-2008, 09:14 AM	#24 (permalink)
70oldsW30 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: houston Posts: 35	88 coupe I feel I must owe you an apology. I apologize. Yes, align hone if necessary. I apologize. I don't understand why an align hone would not alleviate any problem and would appreciate having it explained to me. I apologize. I do not understand about $300 worth of beer, either. I think that your post contained a lot of good advice.