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Old March 26th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #1
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496

I decided to make a thread on my 496 build. I know some may consider this an average day but I've only built a handful of engines myself and this is the first of this size so I'm pretty excited. Now that the garage is finished I did the final cleaning today and began. Thanks in advance for following along and feel free to chime in.
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File Type: jpg DSC00683.JPG (151.4 KB, 195 views)
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Old March 26th, 2013, 02:38 PM   #2
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Trip, good luck on your build and keep us all posted. I just built a 488 and was contemplating going with the 496. Any initial details on what your planning? Are you utizlining a stock crank or Eagle stroked crank? Roller cam, aluminum heads etc..?
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Old March 26th, 2013, 02:53 PM   #3
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It's a stroked 455 N crankshaft, 7.1 rod, 2.2 diameter big end, CP pistons ~10.7:1, roller hydraulic 299/299 - 242/242, .666 lift (If I can get the 1.7 to fit, I think no problem. Otherwise .627). Reworked Bulldog aluminum heads, 2.19/1.75. L-69 intake that has been Extrudehoned with 3x Demon 2bbl, standard center carb and end carbs reworked to ~350 cfm. MSD distributor, ARH headers 2 x 3.5

It's a bit of overkill but this is the last engine for me I hope. I plan on doing it once and doing it right and then enjoying the poo out of it
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Old March 26th, 2013, 03:17 PM   #4
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Who is doing extrude honing these days? Thanks
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Old March 26th, 2013, 03:30 PM   #5
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Well I was going to tell you it is now Kennemetal near Pittsburgh but it appears the old website is down and Kennemtal looks to be out of the automotive market. I know they were heavy into industrial and government contracts at the time. I went there last year to drop off the intake but there was never a mention of the place changing hands. I had a fantastic tour of the place and everything.
After a search it looks like they are in California now under the old Extrudehone name. http://extrudehoneafm.com/
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Old March 26th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #6
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It's a stroked 455 N crankshaft, 7.1 rod, 2.2 diameter big end, CP pistons ~10.7:1, roller hydraulic 299/299 - 242/242, .666 lift (If I can get the 1.7 to fit, I think no problem. Otherwise .627). Reworked Bulldog aluminum heads, 2.19/1.75. L-69 intake that has been Extrudehoned with 3x Demon 2bbl, standard center carb and end carbs reworked to ~350 cfm. MSD distributor, ARH headers 2 x 3.5

It's a bit of overkill but this is the last engine for me I hope. I plan on doing it once and doing it right and then enjoying the poo out of it
Sounds good! What's the issue with 1.7's on the Bulldog heads?
What lobe sep on the cam?
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Old March 26th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #7
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Cutlassefi, the issue was the push rod hole. It's been moved and sleeved so there was a question if there was room for the 3/8 push rod. The heads have 3/8 guide plates. I also needed to get longer rocker arm studs to get proper geometry so I need to stick with the 3/8 push rod because of the length. At least that's what my plan is.

I got a 1.7 rocker from Harland Sharp to test fit everything but I haven't tested it on this block yet. I used my old block but there is a minor deck height difference plus the head gasket, etc. Since my push rod checker is only 5/16 it was hard to determine so I put it aside until I had everything ready to go. After the short block that will be next obviously.

The cam is a 108 separation. It's an Ultradyne/Bullit cam but custom grind. I didn't want to go crazy with it. This is a 99% street car. I might make a pass in it but that's not a priority.
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Old March 27th, 2013, 05:54 AM   #8
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Cutlassefi, the issue was the push rod hole. It's been moved and sleeved so there was a question if there was room for the 3/8 push rod. The heads have 3/8 guide plates. I also needed to get longer rocker arm studs to get proper geometry so I need to stick with the 3/8 push rod because of the length. At least that's what my plan is.

I got a 1.7 rocker from Harland Sharp to test fit everything but I haven't tested it on this block yet. I used my old block but there is a minor deck height difference plus the head gasket, etc. Since my push rod checker is only 5/16 it was hard to determine so I put it aside until I had everything ready to go. After the short block that will be next obviously.

The cam is a 108 separation. It's an Ultradyne/Bullit cam but custom grind. I didn't want to go crazy with it. This is a 99% street car. I might make a pass in it but that's not a priority.
Good info thanks.

In the event you can't use the 3/8 pushrods, you might still be able to use the 1.7's with 5/16 pushrods. There are a couple of guys who make .120 wall 5/16 stuff, plenty strong enough for your application.

Whew, that's an awfully tight lobe sep for a single pattern cam in a mostly street driven 496. Based on your desires, for that big of a motor I would've recommended a 112. Jmo.

Keep us posted on your build.
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Old March 27th, 2013, 10:14 AM   #9
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Trip

My cam in my 488 is on a 107 lobe seperation and made 500hp/600ftlb. Not nearly as much lift as you bit is also 99% street driven vehicle that idles great, great throttle response and pulls hard through entire RPM range which for me is not over 5400 rpm if that matters to you.

This thing should be a monster!!
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Old March 27th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #10
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Looks real pretty, G.

I happened to make this image today (with thanks and apologies to the late John Muir, exalted author of How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive, for the Compleat Idiot) - thought it might be apropos.

Click the image to open in full size.

Good luck with it!

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Old March 27th, 2013, 08:56 PM   #11
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http://oldssleeper.bandcamp.com/album/a-hollow-drum-from-a-hallowed-place http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkPmHItlzvI http://www.bluelinegear.com/ http://www.quartzcreeklodge.com/ http://www.froglube.com/
THE Demons on it 496
Please share photoz from your shop DOC
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Old March 27th, 2013, 09:14 PM   #12
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Looks real pretty, G.

I happened to make this image today (with thanks and apologies to the late John Muir, exalted author of How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive, for the Compleat Idiot) - thought it might be apropos.



Good luck with it!

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LOL I have that book it was as fun reading thru it as it was trying to keep my rabbits hopping
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Old March 28th, 2013, 08:20 AM   #13
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I should have clarified on the push rod hole. It's not the hole itself but the bottom edge where the push rod comes through. With the 1.7s the angle is increased at that point and the push rod may contact the bottom edge. I think it will clear but won't know until later.

Love the pic MD, I do dream of that stuff
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Old March 28th, 2013, 09:49 AM   #14
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http://oldssleeper.bandcamp.com/album/a-hollow-drum-from-a-hallowed-place http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkPmHItlzvI http://www.bluelinegear.com/ http://www.quartzcreeklodge.com/ http://www.froglube.com/
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Looks real pretty, G.

I happened to make this image today (with thanks and apologies to the late John Muir, exalted author of How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive, for the Compleat Idiot) - thought it might be apropos.

Click the image to open in full size.

Good luck with it!

- Eric

Nice picture!

Back in the day we had that book to help us tame our fuel injected rabbit
It was on the shelf next to zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance
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Old March 28th, 2013, 10:23 AM   #15
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LOL I have that book it was as fun reading thru it as it was trying to keep my rabbits hopping
Great book, kind of the counterculture alternative to a Chassis Service Manual. Don't have a 36mm socket? Hammer and chisel works great!

[seriously]

I saved that graphic with Olds V8, that is ME.

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"496?? You must mean a THREE ninety six!"

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Old March 28th, 2013, 12:06 PM   #16
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I saved that graphic with Olds V8, that is ME.
Yeah, I'd like to make a poster of the exploded view, but I need a Parts Manual to be able to do a proper scan of it.
The one I have now looks good at 8x11, but I couldn't blow it up much bigger.

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Old April 4th, 2013, 01:16 PM   #17
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Just a small update on progress. I decided to go with a 1/2 inch 5 main halo girdle for the bottom end. Caps went out today to be cut 3/8 inch. I'll probably have to massage the pan a little but that's fine. I figured more meat on the caps couldn't be a bad thing.
Ordered a high volume oil pump last night.
I sent the front and rear carbs of the Tri-Carb (Demon Six Shooters) package out to be reworked and they came back yesterday. Boy am I glad I did that! If any of you have Demon carbs do yourself a favor and take them apart, at least before you put them on the engine. Mine were no where near spec anywhere. In fact the two carbs had normal metering blocks so there were provisions for idle metering screws but they were plugged. This means that had I tried to use them as is they would have been like trying to run a normal carb without the screws in, one huge air bleed. There was a lot more but I won't go into detail.
I bought these near the final days of Barry Grant so maybe they were just clearing the shelves and throwing whatever they had into the lasts carbs to clear the shelves. Nice quality control Barry ^#%#^@%$. Hopefully now that Holley owns them I hope they fix this crap.
The carbs are rated from BG at 250 cfm each but now the end ones flow in the 350-360 cfm range. The center one will still have the annular boosters for throttle response and better drive ability but the ends have been switched over to down leg ones for increased flow. I'm guessing 950 cfm will be plenty
Until the next update............
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Old April 4th, 2013, 03:27 PM   #18
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Mine were no where near spec anywhere. There was a lot more but I won't go into detail.
I bought these near thefinal days of Barry Grant so maybe they were just clearing the shelves and throwing whatever they had into the lasts carbs to clear the shelves. Nice quality control Barry ^#%#^@%$
Until the next update............
Actually that was a problem for far too long. That's the main reason they went out of business.

Nice update, thanks.
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Old April 27th, 2013, 04:16 PM   #19
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Lots of things going on in my life lately so that's why this has been slow but today I have more updates. Installed the crankshaft and girdle today. I test fit it last week and did the final assembly today. I'm just amazed how easy it spins even with the oil seal in. Makes my old engine look like crap. Really looking forward to see what this beast does. ARP studs 1-4 and ARP bolts on 5.
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File Type: jpg Crank and Girdle (1).JPG (137.8 KB, 198 views)
File Type: jpg Crank and Girdle (2).JPG (130.3 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpg Crank and Girdle.JPG (140.8 KB, 169 views)
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Old April 27th, 2013, 07:23 PM   #20
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Trip Deuces No need to explain you have had you plate full and I am happy to see your monster coming together, I had the same combo with smaller cam but with the same lobe separation and it was a torque monster!!! Yours should be super strong and hold together for a long long time!! Thanks for the pics!! I should be starting on mine late next week!!!!
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Old April 27th, 2013, 07:29 PM   #21
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Trip Deuces that motor looks great and it should run super strong, I built one several years ago and had a cam similar but smaller with a 108 lobe center and it ran extremely stong and I only had a single four barrel with your 3 dueces it should be really responsive. By the way what paint did you use on the motor?
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Old April 27th, 2013, 07:32 PM   #22
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That's Fusick bronze. Expensive, but I love the color. I figured I'd at least try and make it look like a 400
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Old April 27th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #23
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I bought the bronze from mondello of california and it was expensive and nothing but laquer and was not the right color. I bought that high heat bronze from Rustoleum and top coated it with VHT clear and baked it at 200 degrees for half and hour I could only do the heads, Intake, oil pan and water pump and housing in my wife oven, couldnt fit the block in there haha. Anyway the Fusick bronze looks the best!! On my 400 build I will use it. I have a 468 at the machine shop and I get it out next week I am ready to start on it!!
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Old April 27th, 2013, 08:08 PM   #24
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Looking forward to seeing it
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Old April 28th, 2013, 04:58 AM   #25
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Lots of things going on in my life lately so that's why this has been slow but today I have more updates. Installed the crankshaft and girdle today. I test fit it last week and did the final assembly today. I'm just amazed how easy it spins even with the oil seal in. Makes my old engine look like crap. Really looking forward to see what this beast does. ARP studs 1-4 and ARP bolts on 5.
Just curious but why not studs on #5?
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Old April 28th, 2013, 07:06 AM   #26
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Steve the original studs I had before the girdle decision would have been too short when adding the 1/2 girdle and the 1/8 inch washer. The bolts were supplied by the maker of the girdle. Personally I prefer studs but I can live with two bolts. Everything is socked down to #110 lb/ft so I feel safe. As other forums have said, with a girdle all 5 mains will just come out as a unit if it breaks, lol. 5500 rpm is probably the limit of my madness so I'm not worried.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 12:50 PM   #27
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Small update. I felt the need to double and triple check everything (guess I'm a little ocd ). Checked the rod bolt to girdle clearance, about 1/8 inch. A friend had asked what my breakaway torque was so I checked it and I barely got the pointer to move off the zero mark on the beam torque wrench. Since the first mark was at 5 pounds I'm just guessing that the breakaway torque was around 1-2 pounds max. This was with the rod and piston in from the previous check, no rings. I'm very impressed so far with the machine work. I did cut the back side of the rear main seal down like BTR suggested.
Had to order a piston ring filer for the next step. I had one but who knows where it went. Next week I'll put the rods and pistons in.
Until next time.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 08:21 PM   #28
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I used to have a snap on ring grinder and I still have the ring compressors but like you mine got up and walked out on me sometime in the last 15 years. Thats what happens when you dont use them I guess? Oh well, I am still working on getting mine out of the machine shop! Tried to sell a gun to pay for it but nobody has any money haha I know the economy is bad when you cant sell a 1200 dollar gun for 750!! Well now I am going to have to sell a bunch of my OLdmobile NOS stuff I hope it sells on here or 442.com.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 08:49 PM   #29
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Glad to see some progress, looking good Trip. Can't wait to see it run.
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Old May 23rd, 2013, 08:04 AM   #30
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Been planting grass around the garage but I did manage to file the rings for four of the pistons. ^$#% that's a pain in the *** but I'm getting good at it, just tedious. I need to go out today and see if I can find some 3/4 threaded rod to put the damper on with. Not keen on whacking it on with a hammer.
Also in keeping with my OCD I recycled the main studs and bolts. Felt better than the first time
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Old June 27th, 2013, 11:51 AM   #31
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Rings all done and camshaft is in. Put the #1 piston and rod in for checking the timing. Put all the pistons on the rods. I figured I'd put that box to use like an eight pack.
Also used my MP3 player on the garage stereo for the first time. So enjoyable when you can listen to your own music without commercial interruption. Filing those rings just goes so much easier.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Cam Bolt, Dist. Gear, Timing Pointer.JPG (137.5 KB, 128 views)
File Type: jpg Number One Piston.JPG (151.0 KB, 149 views)
File Type: jpg Rings and Cam.JPG (152.4 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg Piston and Rod.JPG (148.5 KB, 135 views)
File Type: jpg Piston and Rod Assy.JPG (142.5 KB, 130 views)
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Old June 27th, 2013, 11:55 AM   #32
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The eight pack!
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Old June 27th, 2013, 01:31 PM   #33
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Trip that engine looks great and should run with those light pistons and rods and is that a billet camshaft? This looks like a street Killer!! I am having second thoughts on my engine now!!!
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Old June 27th, 2013, 02:00 PM   #34
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Sure is fun to play with your new toys in your new garage on your new engine. What fun
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Old June 27th, 2013, 04:07 PM   #35
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What water pump do you plan on using with limited selection and flow requirements for keeping it cool?
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Old June 27th, 2013, 06:07 PM   #36
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The cam is an Ultradyne/Bullet grind. Not sure on the material but it weighs about 10 pounds, hehe.

Just a standard water pump is my plan. It's only .060 over and I do plan to use the diesel oil filter adapter with the cooling lines for an oil cooler.

Citcapp it is fun. I know you've been there with your build. I do feel like a kid with new toys. The garage has turned into my sanctuary from the everyday world lately.

Next job is to get the snake out of my downspout. Scared the poo out of me today. Better yet I'll ignore him because the thunder storms we're getting tomorrow should wash him out.
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Old June 27th, 2013, 06:28 PM   #37
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I just noticed that your block is from a big car...

Might be too late now, but if you are not assembled too far, I would drill and tap the fwd block drain bosses. The only drains you have now will be covered by the motor mounts in an A-body. Which I assume is the destination.

VERY nice looking parts.
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Old June 27th, 2013, 08:17 PM   #38
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I've been meaning to ask about the motor mounts. Which motor mount holes are used on the block for a BBO in a 66 Cutlass?
It's never too late to modify anything.

Thanks Octania, the parts are nice looking and much lighter than stock. Bob weight is 2175 grams. I think stock is around 2700 grams? Either way it won't be revved into the stratosphere. That cam should make power around the 5500 rpm level.
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1956 Olds
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1966 Cutlass convertible
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Old June 27th, 2013, 09:09 PM   #39
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Looks great, George!

Very nice!

- Eric
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Old June 28th, 2013, 06:03 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripDeuces;562190I think stock is around 2700 grams? [B
Actually stock is normally around 2400-2450.[/B]
Either way it won't be revved into the stratosphere. Doesn't matter, it's always good to lose weight if you're not giving up strength. That cam should make power around the 5500 rpm level.
Looks great Trip!
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Old June 28th, 2013, 06:03 AM
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