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Old June 21st, 2010, 11:50 PM   #1
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455 Engine Rebuild Help

I finally picked up my engine from the machine shop after having it hot tanked and tested for cracks.
I was told
- No cracks
- 7 out of 8 of my pistons are good
- My valves need to be replaced
- My Crankshaft needs to be bored
- 1 of my heads seems to have rust and must be bored or replaced.

The guy at the machine shop quoted me $1200 for parts (master kit w/no crank shaft) and about $1000 for labor. The issue I am having is trust with this shop only because the quote for the parts seems very high.
Does this seems to be a fair price or is this guy trying to pull one over me?

Thanks
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 01:35 AM   #2
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do mean the crank needs polished? and your heads needs resurfaced? since this is your first engine rebuild, did he say he would disasemble the whole engine, do all the machine work, valve job, everything necessary to put the engine back together in running condition? it all depends on how much horsepower you want to go with - you can tie up $8,000 pretty quick - or are you just wanting a basic engine rebuild? is it a smog motor? what year is it? you need to call more than one machine shop and do some research and take your time or just go out and buy one already done, running and throw it in
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 09:50 AM   #3
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Find out why the valves are no good.
I find it hard to believe that the shafts are all out of spec, unless they're bent, or severely pitted.

Also, what is wrong with the 1 piston? Ring lands?, pin wear? Skirts too worn?
Or is it the rod that is out of round?
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 08:04 PM   #4
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I know there's some members in the Bay area, or at least within driving distance. If your getting bad vibes from this machine shop, try posting a thread asking for recommendations in your part of the country. John
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Old June 22nd, 2010, 08:51 PM   #5
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Bay area? What Bay area? I know nothing about any Bay Area.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 01:37 PM   #6
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Gene McKay
What is a "Bay Area". I seam to have heard of that place.



What machine shop are you using?

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Old June 24th, 2010, 05:06 PM   #7
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I live in the Bay Area. That parts price sounds high if you are not buying new pistons.Have to look at my old records. Gean just responded to your post, I have had him do work for me, and I highly recommed him,good Olds guy.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 01:28 AM   #8
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I actually took my engine to a place in Sacramento where I currently am staying at and had them hot tank and inspect. The shop didnt tell me what caused these issues except there is some rust in one of the heads which could be re-sleeved or honed. I think all my pistons are good despite what the guy told me. I am going to take my motor to another shop and have them take a look at everything and see what they tell me.
One thing that pissed me off is when I took my my engine to this machine shop for a hot tank they didnt remove my freezer plugs. And the findings were giving to me on a piece of plane blank of paper with scribble. I will let you know what I findout from another place I am going and if everything is different then what that one shop quoted me I will let you know the name of the shop to stay away from.
I seriously think I brought this on my self since I told the shop I didnt know anything about rebuilding engines so everything is new to me. People see this as a golden oppertunity to scam. You live and learn..
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Old June 30th, 2010, 05:30 AM   #9
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there is some rust in one of the heads which could be re-sleeved or honed
I've never heard of re-sleeving or honing a set of heads. Heads can have new valve seats and guides installed, while cylinders can be honed or re-sleeved...
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Old June 30th, 2010, 07:27 PM   #10
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I've never heard of re-sleeving or honing a set of heads. Heads can have new valve seats and guides installed, while cylinders can be honed or re-sleeved...
I meant the block. still learning here so bare with me.

When you rebuild your motor does everyone replace their pistons or install new pistons? I found this engine rebuild kit at the summut racing website and was wondering if this is a good deal? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-CSMHP822-300
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Old July 1st, 2010, 05:45 AM   #11
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You don't have to get pistons with your rebuild kit. If you are doing a stock rebuild then order that kit or another one like it. If you want to add some performance parts to your engine then order a kit without pistons and find a good set of aftermarket pistons.
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Old July 1st, 2010, 07:31 AM   #12
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You mean bear with me...

1 of your head has rust, and needs replaced?
Please expand on this. It seems to me from that previous post, you meant a cylinder, not the head.
I don't know about you, but if I were you, I would be camping in front of Gene's (64 rocket) front yard till he built me one. Bring your VISA checks, too.
You can always just pay the previous shop for what he did, and move on.
Everyone is on a learning curve, the real good shops won't make an i$$ue of it.
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Last edited by Warhead; July 1st, 2010 at 07:35 AM.
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Old July 1st, 2010, 03:54 PM   #13
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Olds64: Thanks for that info, I will start looking for kits without pistons and save up on some good after market pistons. I think the machine shop said the pistons I have are forged and are still good except one only because it has some rust on it.
I also found this this rebuild kit with high compression pistons and a stage 3 camshaft but what do you think? Rebuild Kit

Warhead: Thanks for the spelling lesson and your right I meant Cylinder instead of head. Like I said I am still learning and forums is where I go to get answers. So my question to you Mr. Warhead is it cheaper to resleeve a cylinder then replace all your pistons because of one bad cylinder that has rust?
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 11:51 PM   #14
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Has anyone purchased parts from Enginetech? If so what do you think of their parts and quality?
http://www.enginetech.com/en/engine_kits.html
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 05:00 AM   #15
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One of my warehouses carries Engine Tech stuff and I've used a piece or two here and there, seems o.k. for standard replacement stuff.

Be careful of the "Stage 3" camshaft. Too vague, just like the old term "3/4 Race". Find out exactly what it is.
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 05:06 AM   #16
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Olds64: Thanks for that info, I will start looking for kits without pistons and save up on some good after market pistons. I think the machine shop said the pistons I have are forged and are still good except one only because it has some rust on it.
I also found this this rebuild kit with high compression pistons and a stage 3 camshaft but what do you think? Rebuild Kit

Warhead: Thanks for the spelling lesson and your right I meant Cylinder instead of head. Like I said I am still learning and forums is where I go to get answers. So my question to you Mr. Warhead is it cheaper to resleeve a cylinder then replace all your pistons because of one bad cylinder that has rust?
Be careful who you take advice from. Make sure it's from people who have hands on experience, not from someone who just gets everything out of a book.
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 06:01 AM   #17
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Most of us have been down the same road, I like the way warhead said it "evryone is on a learning curve".
Sometimes you just have to stop and think things over. Anytime you can have a little leverage or edge when dealing with an engine builder it helps. I haven't dealt with any of the builders here but I would, the value or their reputations here, and the after build access to their knowledge is priceless. If you go somewhere to save a buck or two you better be careful. I have learned the hard way. I saved a few bucks on a valve job on my Olds and it smokes now and then when you start it, even after I replaced the stem seals. The guy did what I said but I'm thinking he didn't check the guides. My 496 has cold startup piston slap because I saved a few bucks getting it bored and they didn't realize the pistons were hypercracktic and need extra tight tolerences. I could go on and on. Even the best guys can make a mistake but you will vastly lower your odds of future problems going with a known local builder with a good reputation.
The only trouble with the good guys is that they get busy and backed up. My impatients cost me most of the trouble because I hate getting the run around from a builder that says one thing and does another. "It'll be done next week". Get a real date on when things will be done and don't ever tell them you don't need it right away, and don't give them a huge chunk of money up front, your project might head for the back shelf.
Keep us posted.
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 07:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBoricua View Post
........ I will start looking for kits ........
Do yourself a favor, and read the following again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhead View Post
........ if I were you, I would be camping in front of Gene's (64 rocket) front yard till he built me one ........
And I would have him supply all of the parts.

But if you think Union City is too far from San Jose, to make the trip, you can disregard this post.

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Old July 3rd, 2010, 10:11 AM   #19
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"Eveyone is on a learning curve" Boy you said that right! I feel like a peewit after all the mistakes I have made with my motor. I had nothing to do with the 4 rebuilds. I trusted somebody else. Live and learn
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 10:13 AM   #20
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Am I missing somethiong or is there a joke or feud going on between Norm and somebosy else? Seems counter productive. Lifes to short.
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Old July 4th, 2010, 08:52 AM   #21
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No problem here. I respond to what someone posts. Nothing more, nothing less.

I also try to stay on topic.

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Old July 4th, 2010, 08:55 PM   #22
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No problem here. I respond to what someone posts. Nothing more, nothing less.

I also try to stay on topic.

Norm
Try harder Norm. You posted Obama links on one of my last threads. Keep focussed. Were talking about Oldsmobiles.
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Old July 4th, 2010, 09:22 PM   #23
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Olds64: Thanks for that info, I will start looking for kits without pistons and save up on some good after market pistons. I think the machine shop said the pistons I have are forged and are still good except one only because it has some rust on it.
I also found this this rebuild kit with high compression pistons and a stage 3 camshaft but what do you think? Rebuild Kit

Warhead: Thanks for the spelling lesson and your right I meant Cylinder instead of head. Like I said I am still learning and forums is where I go to get answers. So my question to you Mr. Warhead is it cheaper to resleeve a cylinder then replace all your pistons because of one bad cylinder that has rust?
Not trying to be a jerk, I need to pay more attention to my spell check too.
Yes, a sleeve is around $100, boring, and new pistons will be more like $400+.
I would rather do the bore, sleeve it if it is at .060 over. If you go to build it at some time later with a larger bore, that sleeve may become an issue. Most sleeves are only .087" thick (at least the ones that were done for me). 1 that I had done was at .030 over, and I would cringe if I were to have to bore it again.

What is the bore right now?
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Old July 5th, 2010, 06:59 AM   #24
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Try harder Norm. You posted Obama links on one of my last threads. Keep focussed. Were talking about Oldsmobiles.
X2. I'm still waiting for you to answer this question too Norm. If you claim to stay on topic then answer the questions when asked or say "I don't know"

http://btrperformance.com/phpbb/view...=2422&start=20

Sorry to run off topic but I think I made the point.

Cali, if you're not sure if this a good price for shops in your area, maybe try a couple more. And keep asking alot of questions when you get them on the phone. I've found most good shops are happy to share info.

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Old July 5th, 2010, 07:23 AM   #25
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Remaining on topic.

Quote:
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........ if you think Union City is too far from San Jose ........
Correction: OP did not say he was in San Jose.

Having said that. It would be well worth his time, to contact Gene (64Rocket) for quality advise.

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Old July 5th, 2010, 10:54 PM   #26
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Quick question about Pistons.
There is a guy selling 8 KB Forged pistons .40 for around $240. He said they were installed in his 455 motor in his boat for about 30 minutes until his motor spun a rod bearing. He showed me pictures and they look decent except for the black build up but they still look shinny.
Would you bite the bullet and buy them or just invest in the extra $200 for new ones?

Thanks.
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Old July 6th, 2010, 06:00 AM   #27
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If you are considering buying used pistons then I'm sure the current owner wouldn't mind if you used a micrometer to measure them. I would definitely measure each of the pistons for diameter and out of round before buying them. If you don't know how to do this then ask the guy if your machinist can check them. If he is unwilling then spend the extra money on new pistons.
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Old July 6th, 2010, 04:41 PM   #28
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X2 but as you know they will be out of round anyway. They will normally be substantially smaller towards the pin than at the center of the skirt. Just an FYI.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 12:38 AM   #29
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I wont go with the used pistons but all this researching to driving me crazy. I want to go with a kit because everything is there but the kits are just generic. I then want to buy everything seperate so I can get good pistons and a camshaft but there are so may options and I dont know what works with what. So many options with comp cams but what if I get the wrong pistons..Confused!
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Old July 7th, 2010, 05:42 AM   #30
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X2 but as you know they will be out of round anyway. They will normally be substantially smaller towards the pin than at the center of the skirt.


FWIW, if you are having trouble deciding then it might be a wise choice to go with whatever is cheaper. If you buy a generic kit then you won't spend as much money, but your engine will be "like new" when you have it rebuilt. I'm sure you will be happy with your engine even with a stock rebuild. Olds big blocks had plenty of torque and could move those cars!
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Old July 7th, 2010, 04:28 PM   #31
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I think that might be the route I may end up going. I do want to want to buy a Compcam kit and get decent pistons but I lack the knowledge what would work with what.
Before I invest in a kit I am going to make a stop at a parts store near by called tognotti's and pick their brains to see what I can do. I am also going to rebuild my transmission since I am rebuilding my engine so I will ask away and get prices.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 05:50 AM   #32
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Good deal. Let us know what you find out at the parts store.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 05:05 PM   #33
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I was told to get flat top pistons by the parts sales man but someone else said get dish type pistons. Here is what rebuild kit I am going with so far.

* COMP CAMS 268 XTREME ENERGY HYDRAULIC FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT K-KIT K42-223-4
- COMP CAMS HYDRAULIC CAMSHAFT
- COMP CAMS HYDRAULIC LIFTERS
- COMP CAMS MAGNUM TIMING CHAIN
- COMP CAMS VALVE SPRINGS
-
COMP CAMS STEEL RETAINERS

- COMP CAMS STEEL VALVE LOCKS
- COMP CAMS VALVE STEM SEALS

* Clevite rod and main bearings
* HV Oil Pump
* Fel Pro Full Gasket Set
* steel freeze plugs
* Clevite 77 cam bearings

Now I just need to find pistons under $400
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Old July 13th, 2010, 05:47 AM   #34
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Here are the pistons I used when I rebuilt my engine:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRW-L2323F30/
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Old July 13th, 2010, 06:28 AM   #35
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Flat top pistons will probably net you a higher compression ratio than you would be willing to deal with on a non-race application. Be sure to know what the CR is of these 'flat top' pistons is. I would stay around 9.5:1, 10:1 tops, otherwise you may find yourself buying the highest octane fuel you can find and/or driving the car less often. Oldsmobile engines develop a lot of torque, especially the 455 and personally I don't think you need higher compression ratio pistons.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #36
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Flat tops will yield you around 10.5:1. You might want to check out the KB Icons, 14cc or the Sealed Power 2323's, 18cc. They'll give you mid 9:1. Should work fine with pump gas.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #37
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I might as well add my two cents.....It seems to me that everyone is trying to help here but, the real truth is (the way I see it) all this info. is confusing the person seeking help. I would recommend this----call Dick Miller or Andy Miller (not related) and ask them. They are both extremely qualified and knowledgable and won't gouge anyone. Dick Miller sells complete engines and Andy (Olds performance products) might also. If you want good tech advice or want to have them do the rebuild both can speak on laymans terms and will provide good service at fairly reasonable prices. GOOD STUFF AIN'T CHEAP--CHEAP STUFF AIN'T GOOD. Until next time.....Dave.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 02:21 PM   #38
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Here are the pistons I used when I rebuilt my engine:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRW-L2323F30/
Those are the same pistons that came out of my engine but I can re-use them because they have to bore it to 40 since one cylinder had rust but the pistons (besides one) are still in great shape.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 02:25 PM   #39
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I might as well add my two cents.....It seems to me that everyone is trying to help here but, the real truth is (the way I see it) all this info. is confusing the person seeking help. I would recommend this----call Dick Miller or Andy Miller (not related) and ask them. They are both extremely qualified and knowledgable and won't gouge anyone. Dick Miller sells complete engines and Andy (Olds performance products) might also. If you want good tech advice or want to have them do the rebuild both can speak on laymans terms and will provide good service at fairly reasonable prices. GOOD STUFF AIN'T CHEAP--CHEAP STUFF AIN'T GOOD. Until next time.....Dave.
I never heard of the Millers, are they located in the Bay Area?
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Old July 13th, 2010, 05:02 PM   #40
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No they are not in the Bay Area. Try to Google their names and contact them via the internet or telephone. The only way you can use the original pistons is if the block retains the same bore, If the block had been bored .040 and it only requires honing to clean it up you're O.K. If the block was standard bore and the pistons were the same then they CANNOT be used if the block is to be bored to .040. Contact either one of the Millers----you won.t be sorry.
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