455 Help PLEASE

[Schober Motorsports]

Alright, well I got the motor all together and in and we go to start it and...

No luck.

It seems like the motor doesn't want to suck any air or anything IN, it basically just pushes it out though the intake. So instead of air going into the intake there is air being pushed out. Now I thought could it be the timing chain being off... There is really only one possible way it could go on so I don't understand why there could possibly be an issue. We got spark and when we spray engine starting fluid into the cylinder it fires... Someone please help me, I wanna hear my damn motor already!

-Craig

[Warhead]

Sounds (from your description) like the chain is off somehow, to me.
There is a bunch of ways to get it wrong...
Been there, done that.
Good luck,
Jim

[OLDSRALLYE350]

Run the compression on the motor will give you a indication if the timing is off. If you think there might be a chance its out pull a valve cover get a piston on top dead center continue rotating watch for the intake valve to open as the piston goes down should be closed in 180 degrees if not will push air out the carb.

[Schober Motorsports]

I know the timing isn't off. I did run a compression test on all 8 cylinders.

1: 90
2: 80
3: 70
4: 90
5: 95
6: 90
7: 80
8: 75

I got enough for compression. What else could be the problem?

EDIT: Ya I did physically take off the valve covers and put number one cylinder to TDC and I blew air into it. It compressed so I guessed I was on compression. I turned it another 180 degrees to make sure and sure enough I was right, air was coming out of the intake.

[OLDSRALLYE350]

Usually a motor will not run on pump gas if compression is under 100 psi. 110 psi is usually around 8.5 compression ratio depending on how fast the starter is spinning the motor and how well the rings are sealing etc.

[Schober Motorsports]

I thought I only needed about 60 psi for compression... This still doesn't explain my problem of the intake blowing out air vs sucking it in.

EDIT: I got those readings from just turning the motor over with the starter. The motor hasn't even been started yet or hasn't get warmed up or anything since those new rings were installed, would that make any significant difference to my compression?

[OLDSRALLYE350]

that takes us back to timing if the piston is on its way up and the intake valve is open it pushes air out the intake. Im not saying its out of time I would pull the valve cover and check using intake movement in relation to piston movement if the piston is on compression stroke and the intake valve is open then its a very likely a timing issue. Its a lot easier than pulling the timing cover for nothing. If your unsure of what im saying someone local maybe able to help you check this.

[OLDSRALLYE350]

Motors that have the rings washed out by gas (flooded) will have low compression this can be cleared up by putting oil in the cylinders about a teaspoon full ,cranking over and reruning the compression but in your case when the pistons were installed the oil used to install them should seal the rings to have at least 100 psi compression.

[Schober Motorsports]

Ah I tested the compression after trying to start the motor... Well good I'll throw some oil in there and try again, man you sure had me worried for a bit!

Also I'll double check the valves, make sure we are still timed correctly, I mean what really can it be if I am not in time ya know? Its amazing I've checked the timing so many times, but it still isn't enough...

Thanks for you help!

[mugzilla]

pics plz ...

[70 cutlass s]

I hate bring these up but Olds firing order is counter clockwise not like a chevy that runs clockwise. I now people do some times forget this mainly if it there first Olds build.

[gearheads78]

Originally Posted by 70 cutlass s

I hate bring these up but Olds firing order is counter clockwise not like a chevy that runs clockwise. I now people do some times forget this mainly if it there first Olds build.

Kicked my ass for a day trying to fire my car

[Warhead]

All cylinders are consistently HALF of what they need to be.
You should have 150-175 psi.
No exceptions.
Oil or not, there IS a problem that snake oil just won't fix.
What can cause ALL of the cylinders to be consistently low (1/2 compression) all at the same time???
No rings-
No head gaskets-
Too long of pushrods,
Consistently bad valve job,
Way to much cam, with oversized combustion chambers...

or the dreaded put the timing chain on wrong.

I mean valve timing, not ignition timing.

Quadruple check this part, means pulling off the front and lining up the dots again. 1 tooth will be a bunch (20 some degrees which will easily put you into the 1/2 compression ballpark).
If you had some cylinders with real compression, I would not say the timing chain.
But you don't. ALL are low.

The sooner you see this, the sooner you can drive it.
And YES, this CAN cause the air to move both ways in the ports.
Not being a wise ass.
Trying to help.
My opinion.
Jim

[Schober Motorsports]

Well, thanks to my own stupidity it was the timing chain, it was off, really off... So once I got over my own dum mistake, it started right up no problem. I couldn't be more happy. Also I forgot to add before, this motor has already been built once before, the cylinders still had those original hone scratches in it, the pistons were all over .040, and the cam has a .465 lift, I would expect that to be a bit over stock.

I'll post a video and some more pictures later.



EDIT: Thanks Jim, what you said made perfect sense. And don't worry, your not being a wise ass :P
I am not getting a consistent 150 psi in all cylinders, yay!

[Warhead]

Originally Posted by Schober Motorsports

Well, thanks to my own stupidity it was the timing chain, it was off, really off... So once I got over my own dum mistake, it started right up no problem. I couldn't be more happy. Also I forgot to add before, this motor has already been built once before, the cylinders still had those original hone scratches in it, the pistons were all over .040, and the cam has a .465 lift, I would expect that to be a bit over stock.

I'll post a video and some more pictures later.



EDIT: Thanks Jim, what you said made perfect sense. And don't worry, your not being a wise ass :P
I am not getting a consistent 150 psi in all cylinders, yay!

Glad you did not take it the wrong way.
EVERYONE will make this mistake, even the pro's.
You will get your compression back up, and will have a blast driving it!
Your car looks like FUN!!!
Jim

[Schober Motorsports]

As promised, pictures

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3808455

[Coltonis]

hey, you've got the same intake as me!

[Warhead]

Not to sound negative, here, butttt...the 650 Holley will only strangle that mean old 455. The q-jet IS better, but if it were me...
I would go 800q-jet (if you can find one), or 850 Holley vacuum secondary.
A 750 vacuum secondary will make around the same power as a standard q-jet, but any q-jet will get much, much better mileage.
At the very least, get a proform main body for the 650 DP, and make it a 790, or 800 so it can feed the 455 even at 5000rpm.
The 650 is tooooo small. JMHO
Hope all is well.
Good luck with the project.
Jim

[Texas Jim]

Good f/ you ! In high school, in the early '70s, I had two good friends who put alot of money and time into their cars. Alot of hot factory cars around back then. I also took Auto Shop, in '72, one semester, as my brother did before me in '67. (This was "mechanics only," ie; how a carb works, all the systems, etc.) He still has the book. LOL! And it's a good one, the old basic automotive info, great stuff. No computers back then. I guess a '64 is very OLD stuff f/ guys your age. Bud Merrit was our teacher. He confronted me one morning in class and said that he was behind us the night before when Sam Peterson and I were in Sam's early 60s Peugeot (Sam also had a '67 Rally Sport Camaro Convert. w/ a worked 350) w/ the sun roof open and throwing our empty beer bottles out through it as we finished them. He just gave me that crazy smile of his. LOL. Bud Merritt was pretty old even then and wasn't bashful what so ever. He could fix ANYTHING. LOL! I have very fond memories of those days.
My hat is off to you. I wish you the very best of luck w/ the car. And thanks f/ the memories. Jimmy.

[jslabotsky]

Is that Chevy orange on your Olds 455? Blasphemy!

[Texas Jim]

Originally Posted by jslabotsky

Is that Chevy orange on your Olds 455? Blasphemy!

30 and 40 years ago, it was a "sin" to paint anything but the original factory color on an engine; Chevy Orange-they later went to blue and black, the old Ford Blue, etc. In the past so-many years, it seems that people paint the engines to match their cars, maybe the color they like, other mfgs. colors, etc. There's no more stiff rules f/ the color thing it seems. I personally still like to paint the engine it's original color as it marks the brand/era of the engine, in my case right now w/ my '71 455, the Olds met. blue. I like the old rules from the older days, so I'm w/ you, j-sky, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the guys who do their own thing. So, "to each his own."

[Schober Motorsports]

Ehh I wanted that thing to really pop out at your when you open the hood

And seeing that this has to be the first big block in the auto shop in about 20 years, its done just about that.

[Texas Jim]

Originally Posted by Schober Motorsports

Ehh I wanted that thing to really pop out at your when you open the hood

And seeing that this has to be the first big block in the auto shop in about 20 years, its doing just about that.

It does pop out w/ the orange on the block, good f/ you, looks great! The body is super cool too. F/ such a young guy, you have it "Goin' On" and you should be very proud of your accomplishments, no doubt.

[gearheads78]

Nice work. Glad you got it going.

[MN71W30]

Originally Posted by Warhead

Not to sound negative, here, butttt...the 650 Holley will only strangle that mean old 455. The q-jet IS better, but if it were me...
I would go 800q-jet (if you can find one), or 850 Holley vacuum secondary.
A 750 vacuum secondary will make around the same power as a standard q-jet, but any q-jet will get much, much better mileage.
At the very least, get a proform main body for the 650 DP, and make it a 790, or 800 so it can feed the 455 even at 5000rpm.
The 650 is tooooo small. JMHO
Hope all is well.
Good luck with the project.
Jim

Some more good advice from Jim,
X2

[Texas Jim]

Originally Posted by MN71W30

Some more good advice from Jim,
X2

Understandably, the 650 Holley is too small f/ the 455. Exactly what size is the quadrajet that comes stock on the 455? And did the carb size or (only) tuning of the carb (ie; jet size drop)varry from the years prior to smog devices to '72 and later? (or even starting in '71 w/ unleaded fuel?)