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First impulse says; intake manifold gasket is ripped/damaged. There aren't many other places that the coolant can get to the oil. If you can get the gaskets with the silicone passage surrounds on them, you stand a better chance of getting it to seal.
Are there any bolts on the intake, timing cover, or water pump that goes threw a water jacket and would need sealant on the bolt?
If I did a compression test again would that help narrow down whether the problem lies with the head gaskets? Also it isn't smoking anymore out the tailpipes.
Last edited by 71cutlass350; December 8th, 2016 at 12:15 PM.
Are there any bolts on the intake, timing cover, or water pump that goes threw a water jacket and would need sealant on the bolt?
If I did a compression test again would that help narrow down whether the problem lies with the head gaskets? Also it isn't smoking anymore out the tailpipes.
No, but the gaskets at the manifold and water pump and timing cover seal them, and if they don't.. I doubt if it is one of the head gaskets.
Here are things I could think of that would let water get into the crankcase:
leaky head gasket (not torqued properly)
leaky intake gasket (front and rear corners)
timing cover rusted through behind water pump (I had this happen once)
Which type intake gasket did you use and how did you install it? If the turkey tray, did you use sealer around the water ports?
Did you have a deep socket to torque the head bolts with the extended studs for the alternator / air conditioner brackets?
Last edited by Fun71; December 9th, 2016 at 11:24 PM.
I used the turkey tray and I did use sealer around the ports and yes I got all head bolts torqued with the torque wrench. I will go back and re-torque all bolts on the heads and intake just to make sure.
If its the timing cover would I be able to remove the water pump and put rtv around the inside of the water ports between the block and cover?
I measured the amount of oil that came out of the engine roughly and it was about the same that I put in so it must not be a massive leak.
Another thought I had, although hopeful, is would it be possible that enough residue coolant left sitting in the block from removing the intake the first time and enough dirt/grime was able to discolor the oil?
Possibly, but I thought you drained the oil while attempting to retrieve the broken dip stick tube.
When you put the turkey tray gasket on, did you make sure the bosses were fitted into the bolt holes and the gasket was flat when you set the intake? This is usually the issue.
I used the turkey tray and I did use sealer around the ports and yes I got all head bolts torqued with the torque wrench. I will go back and re-torque all bolts on the heads and intake just to make sure.
If its the timing cover would I be able to remove the water pump and put rtv around the inside of the water ports between the block and cover?
I measured the amount of oil that came out of the engine roughly and it was about the same that I put in so it must not be a massive leak.
Another thought I had, although hopeful, is would it be possible that enough residue coolant left sitting in the block from removing the intake the first time and enough dirt/grime was able to discolor the oil?
Here is a tip to save money and keep antifreeze out of just built motors in case there is a leak. Just use regular water without it.
I had drained the oil before i tore it apart and then I put new VR1 oil in before I fired it up for the break in and then drained that today.
Almost positive I got the tray lined up perfect but anythings possible might have missed something.
I wanted to use water but because of the temperature right now I didn't want to have to drain it every time I let it sit, unless using water right now would be more beneficial.
I had drained the oil before i tore it apart and then I put new VR1 oil in before I fired it up for the break in and then drained that today.
Almost positive I got the tray lined up perfect but anythings possible might have missed something.
I wanted to use water but because of the temperature right now I didn't want to have to drain it every time I let it sit, unless using water right now would be more beneficial.
Water and oil is better than oil and antifreeze, and draining the water is better than letting it freeze. Once you have it running without leaks then put in the antifreeze.
On the intake gasket, I put my silicone around the water port in the head, and then put the gasket over that, and then a light silicone coating over the raised manifold gasket emboss, for the water ports. The tray has 2 little projections on each side, and they go into 2 small holes in each head to hold it in place and lined up right.
Good point about the water I'll switch that out next time I work on it. Getting tired of sticky antifreeze over everything.
Well that is probably my problem. I was in a hurry and only put rtv around the water ports on the intake/tray side and not the head/tray side and I didn't put any on the raised emboss.
Good point about the water I'll switch that out next time I work on it. Getting tired of sticky antifreeze over everything.
Well that is probably my problem. I was in a hurry and only put rtv around the water ports on the intake/tray side and not the head/tray side and I didn't put any on the raised emboss.
I am a little paranoid about those water ports leaking with the turkey tray, so thats the way I do it, though I never had one leak but had heard of it happening. It may or may not be where it is.
One more thing on using straight water. It is a lot better coolant than antifreeze.
I will go back and re-torque all bolts on the heads and intake just to make sure.
In addition to using the correct torque, be sure to tighten incrementally, and follow the correct sequence. Sometime it can make a difference. Also torque values for lubed threads are different from dry threads.
When using silicone, put the bolts in snug with you fingers until a little silicone oozes out from under the parts, wait 15 minutes, and then tighten the bolts. If you tighten the bolts immediately, the silicone does not make the gasket that you desire.
A friend had suggested getting a cooling system pressure tester to see if that would diagnose a leak somewhere. Just wondering if this would actually be beneficial? Also ordered a new turkey tray and some more rtv so hopefully I will able to re-do the intake this weekend.
The stock intake weighs a ton, I hope you have another set of hands setting it in place. Be sure to fit the gasket so it sits flat and the locating nubs are in all the holes prior putting on the rtv. You have to bend and twist it to make it fit correctly so doing a dry run is important or the nubs will pop out and get crushed causing a gap and therefore a leak..
Ton of good info here, a tip I would offer would be to let the gasket maker set up for a few minutes so it doesn't swish out, especially on the tall beads on the ends. Good luck, its never easy the first time.
I'm working out of an unheated garage and temps this weekend will be anywhere from -20 to 20. Just wondering if rtv cures when its this cold or how much longer it needs to sit to firm up. If need be now that its running I could probably squeeze it into a heated garage for the weekend.
I have a good size wood burner but still doesn't do much when there's no insulation, that will come eventually. I might move it up to my uncles heated garage for my own comfort and to make sure everything cures this time.
I have a good size wood burner but still doesn't do much when there's no insulation, that will come eventually. I might move it up to my uncles heated garage for my own comfort and to make sure everything cures this time.
Thermal underwear, especially the pants help fight off the cold. Misting the silicone with water and infrared lamps helps.
I believe the packaging has a temperature range for proper curing on it. If you are outside those parameters, you should check with the manufacturer. It may not cure at all below some temperatures. The term RTV means Room Temperature Vulcanizing. I do not think that -20 to 20 degrees is exactly room temperature.
The vacuum tester, and coolant pressure tester can be borrowed on the loaner program from most parts stores. You put it on your credit card, and return it for a full credit.
Next question, when I removed the intake the first time I didn't do a very good job of getting all the coolant out of the engine so I had a mess when it all came pouring out of the intake. Whats the best way to drain coolant out of the engine block? Pull the lower radiator hose off and jack the rear of the car up?
I'm no materials expert, but I believe that RTV needs not only warm temperatures but also some humidity in the air in order to cure. Even if you heat your garage, the dry winter air might give you problems.
Next question, when I removed the intake the first time I didn't do a very good job of getting all the coolant out of the engine so I had a mess when it all came pouring out of the intake. Whats the best way to drain coolant out of the engine block? Pull the lower radiator hose off and jack the rear of the car up?
Works for me. If you had the water pump off too, I would say stick a small tube in the hole in the bock for the pump and pull the coolant even lower. That works too.
Whats the best way to drain coolant out of the engine block?
If you ever want another challenging job, you could install a block drain for each bank of the engine. Here are a couple photos showing one of a pair I recently put on a 460 Ford engine. Then you will also be able to do a "real" cooling system flush.
Ok so got the cooling system pressure tester hooked up. My question is is it testing the whole system radiator and block or is it just testing the radiator because the thermostat won't let pressure get to the block. If that's the case if I pulled the thermostat out and bolted everthing back up and re pressurized it would that work? Thanks
Ok so got the cooling system pressure tester hooked up. My question is is it testing the whole system radiator and block or is it just testing the radiator because the thermostat won't let pressure get to the block. If that's the case if I pulled the thermostat out and bolted everything back up and re pressurized it would that work? Thanks
When you pressurize the coolant system, it pressurizes BOTH sides of the thermostat. No need to remove it. It's like a balloon shaped like a dog. The pressure is the same throughout the coolant system regardless of obstacles.
Ok well it's been pressurized for over an hour with zero drop in pressure so I'm gonna go ahead and fill it back up with oil and run it for another 15-20 minutes and drain it again to see what that oil looks like.
Ok well it's been pressurized for over an hour with zero drop in pressure so I'm gonna go ahead and fill it back up with oil and run it for another 15-20 minutes and drain it again to see what that oil looks like.
Good good very good. If it holds pressure you should be fine. Just check the dipstick to check. Use water to fire it up and once everything is fine, then drain the water and put in the antifreeze.
Don't think there was a leak after all but I haven't had a chance to verify %100 percent yet.
Gas lines are still plugged. Discounted the line at the tank and blew carb cleaner through no problem. Blew air into the tank at the feed line and hooked everything back up. Still won't bring gas up from the tank. So I made a temporary tank out of a gas can and mounted it behind the headlights for now.
Car won't idle at all but runs fine 1250rpm and up but below that it dies.
Now the big problem. Transmission seems to be slipping. Dumped some trans fluid in it and seemed to help grab better but can't keep the damn thing running long enough to try to drive it again.
Now at this point with my limited time in my borrowed heated shop I would like to drive it on to a trailer to get it to where it will be stored so it's out of my hair and out of my sight.
Goal for today is to see if I can get it to idle. My plan is to try to get a vacuum gauge and hook that up to make sure I don't have a vacuum leak causing poor idle. Also might try getting a timing light and maybe advancing the timing a little more to see if that helps. As for the qjet I plan on researching it some and seeing if there's any adjustments I can do that would help.
December 8th, 2016, 11:39 AM
