Firewalker

Its in the book and on the board. Valves guides should be 1-4 thousandths. I have seen them closer to 100 thousandths coming out of Olds heads on running motors.

80 Rocket

I understand it is in the book. I also understand you are not a cylinder head builder either. Take care.

71cutlass350

I have a busy weekend ahead but I plan on getting the heads mounted and toqued and hopefully get the timing chain cover installed. I was able to test fit the cover and those oil pan seals are going me to be a challenge but I will try to get them in there otherwise have other people had success trimming them off and using lots of rtv?

Ozzie

Yes, that's usually a challenge; use both, proceed slowly and carefully, and be sure to center the seal before tightening the cover.

71cutlass350

Ok starting to get back to work on this thing and I am starting to get the bolt torqued down for the cam gear and I noticed that with the chain on and the cam gear bolt torqued I am able to slide the whole cam in and out of the block roughly .25". Is this normal or is something else going on?

Firewalker

I would say somewhat normal, and you would use a button on the cam bolt to keep if from moving that far, IF you were using a roller cam. But with a flat tappet cam the lifters will pull it back towards the block as the cam spins. The cam lobes are shaped, at a slight angle/slant, to help the lifters rotate and it also causes the pull back.

71cutlass350

Sound enough reasoning to me thanks. Also tried pulling the oil pan down a bit to fit the ears of the timing chain gasket in but it wouldn't budge so I'm going to trim them off and use lots of rtv.

oldcutlass

The distributor also helps keep the cam in place.

71cutlass350

Well I'm screwed now. Went to put the new dipstick in the block and turns out the old dipstick tube snapped off in the block flush with the top. Figured I'd be able to break it loose and pull it straight up and out with a reverse step drill bit for removing broken off bolts. Stuck that in the and turned it till it grabbed then pulled on that with a pliers. Than that cheap pos broke off in the tube flush with the block also. As far as i can figure I have 3 options
1) find a drill bit the same size as the original hole and drill it out then try to flush the pan out as best as possible afterwards.
2) punch the tube into the oil pan and leave it in there but might be difficult because it still has some of the lip on the top.
3) pull the engine which I really don't want to do.
Any additional ideas or which one of the above is the best route?

texxas

Drop oil pan and tap broken tube with broken drill bit out of the block. You will not easily drill that broken bit out. It is easiest to drop pan I'd think.

71cutlass350

Ended up just tapping it into the oil pan so now my plan is to try to get a magnet and attempt to remember be it through the oil drain hole. If that doesn't work I'll pull the time my cover off again and try getting it through there.

Ozzie

Sometimes in life do-do happens. Just proceed slowly and carefully. If your plan doesn't work you can remove the pan as Texxas said, though it is a bit of a P.I.T.A. But you will need to elevate the engine to clear it. Best wishes on the fishing expedition.

Firewalker

Rotating the crank can be needed as well, if removing the pan, to get the big counterweights out of the way of the pan keeping it from sliding out.

Ozzie

Correct. Keep that flywheel turning tool handy. You may have to do it in "steps".

Firewalker

Can turn it at the balancer too, just a few trips of out from under and dive back again, if he is younger.

71cutlass350

Well still no luck on getting it out. I know it's not ideal but is there any real danger to just letting it stay inside the oil pan if it sits at the bottom? Obviously I'd much prefer to get it out but I need to be finishing up this engine sooner than later to make room for storing other cars.

Ozzie

It would seem that the biggest objection would be if it partially blocked the intake for the pump. Other than that, you would likely not have anything to grieve over. Some of the old Ford C6 transmissions had a loose plastic piece in the pan by design. It was there as an aid to assembly.

Firewalker

Since he just wants to get it running and then park it, for storage with other cars, I agree.

Fun71

Two '90s era cars I had with 4R70W transmissions had the plastic assembly plug rolling around in the trans pan as well.

71cutlass350

I picked up a magnetic oil pan plug and hopefully that will catch it and maybe next spring if i have some time I can remove the pan and get it out. I'm getting ready to put the intake back on just have to remove the distributor first. I'm not using the end seals but rtv instead. Besides the two beads of rtv along the front and back, where else should I put some? Also how tall/how much of a bead should I put down? Thanks

Firewalker

These magnets are handy, and much stronger than normal magnets sold and normally used by people.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...%2F8+&_sacat=0

olds 307 and 403

Go with a bead around all 4 water ports, both sides of the gaskets. Put a very tall bead, about an inch tall, I use multiple passes as you want the bead high and only so wide.

71cutlass350

Got the intake on tonight, finally starting to look like an engine again haha. Plan on working on it again tomorrow and hopefully finishing up all the small stuff then starting it up and doing a break in on Sunday.

oldcutlass

If it fell into the pan I would not worry about it. It will not block the pickup screen and will roll around until you remove the pan at some later date.

71cutlass350

Well got everything put pack together and connected and planned on getting the car started and broke in before I had to leave tonight but as usual there were numerous problems that kept slowing me down all weekend. I was still able to try to fire it up tonight but it wouldn't start. It would crank and pop a little when I put gas in the carb but would do nothing when just cranking normally. Every once and awhile it would pop out the carb with a mist of gas. Not sure if I got the timing off slightly when I put the distributer in. I know nothing about timing so need some help on this one.

oldcutlass

Did you install the distributor with the #1 cylinder at tdc on the compression stroke? Was the rotor pointing to where you plugged in the #1 spark plug wire and you wired the rest of the firing order CCW from there?

71cutlass350

Before I pulled the distributor I removed the cap and marked where the rotor was pointing and when I installed it I tried to get the rotor in the exact same location, it may have been off slightly but it was as close as I could get it. Sounds like I need to do some research and learn how to do it the correct way and double check all the plug wires. Hopefully that fixes the issue.

oldcutlass

If the crank had been rotated any during your project, your mark is N/A. You need to find tdc and reinstall or wire accordingly.

71cutlass350

Ok I will try that next weekend and read up on the process this week. Also forgot to mention it's a hei unit out of a newer 455 I'm assuming. Is setting the timing for this engine any different say from a Chevy or should I focus specifically on Oldsmobiles?

oldcutlass

Setting principle is just like a chevy, however the Olds distributor turns CCW. Adjusting requires turning in the opposite direction to advance or decline timing. Your old points timing settings are N/A since the HEI has a shorter timing curve. An HEI also requires full battery voltage so the original resistance wire will not work.

71cutlass350

Finally got the timing reset. Got the #1 cylinder on TDC and made sure it lined up with the timing mark on the balencer, redid all the spark plug wires in the correct order, and tried starting it up again. Still nothing, not even a little pop. Wires are getting power and should be getting fuel. Even with dumping gas down the carb still nothing. Not sure what I'm missing or doing wrong. The temp outside is around 20 degrees right now, would that have something to do with a no start?

oldcutlass

Try advancing the timing on the distributor a bit. If your getting fuel and spark at the right time it will start. If poured a lot of fuel down the carb in 20* temps, its probably really flooded and it will be hard to start. You may need to pull and dry the plugs. You also may want to use a bit of starting fluid while cranking instead of pouring fuel.

71cutlass350

Would advancing be turning the cap clockwise or counterclockwise and should I have the vacuum line hooked up to the distributor; thought I remember seeing somewhere to leave it unhooked. And Ill try the starting fluid sounds like a better approach.

oldcutlass

CW to advance timing. Vacuum advance connection does not matter at this point.

71cutlass350

OK I will give that a try in the morning and report back. Thanks for the help.

Ozzie

The HEI must be capable of firing a spark plug that's under compression. Try to verify without letting the "spark" go through your heart. You've come too far with this to quit now.
Also, as mentioned, the proportions of fuel and air can be important. Most cold start engines need some choke, but too much fuel can be just as bad as too little.

71cutlass350

Advanced the timing a little bit and tried cranking it again and no luck. So I pulled the fuel line off at the carb to put a bottle over the end and cranked it over to check for fuel and no fuel. Pulled the line off from the tank and it was dry. So there's part of my problem. I just used a new hose and ran it into a gas can and then it would suck up gas. Tried starting it again with fuel this time and still wont even pop. Might try advancing it a little more, any idea how much of a turn is equal to say 1 degree?

71cutlass350

Got it up and running finally and ran it at 2000 rpm for 15 minutes. Had good oil pressure, stayed at 190 degrees but the engine did seem hotter than that. It also developed a pretty good oil leak at the valve cover.

Drained the oil and it was half oil half antifreeze, really milky. So obviously I did something wrong and I feel in way over my head at this point. If its something simple great, if not its getting parked in a shed for a year or two till I have time and money to do something with it.

Thought I did everything right putting it back together but it was my first time doing any of this so very well of forgotten something. What would be the more common areas that would cause this and how would I check?

oldcutlass

If I had to guess the most likely suspect, it would be the intake manifold gasket. It could also be the timing case cover or head gasket/s. Don't get disgruntled, your not the first that this has happened to. You just have to go over everything you changed that has the chance of leaking water into the crank case.

Firewalker

Check to see if all the water pump bolts are snug, and do the same one the intake.