virtualwsp

I read that one trouble with the 455 big block motors is the oiling in the lower half of the block. I wanted to freshen up my 455 and look to replace the tired oil pump. I wanted to get advise from anyone who can recommend an oil pump that will not starve the bearings.

dan2286

Just get a high volume oil pump and dont rev it over 5k RPM's on a regular basis and you will be fine.

MN71W30

I just got my 455 crank back today and asked a similar question to the builder.
I asked if I should use a high volume pump and he said the standard pump was big enough and extra oil is by passed continueously that defeats the purpose of having a high volume pump. He said a stonger spring or shimming the spring can increase pressure of a standard pump if you want a little higher pressure. I talked to one Olds mechanic and he said a high volume pump could suck the pan dry. I'm sure I'll hear a few opposing view points and i'll be more than happy to listen.

I installed a new standard pump and shimmed the spring about .030

redoldsman

I have heard and read differing opinions about Olds oil pumps. I have heard the HV pump will pump the pan dry at higher RPM's. I have also heard if you keep the RPM's down as dan2286 says, you will be fine with a HV pump. It will be interesting to get some expert opinions. I have one of each and don't know which one I will use when I rebuild my 350. Melling is one of the more popular brands.

88 coupe

Do you have a problem with the oiling in the lower half of your 455?

Has your "tired" pump been starving your bearings?

Odds are, that old "tired" pump is a stock one.

He was right.

All else being equal, once the bypass is open, both will move the same volume of oil. If it was possible for one to "pump the pan dry" the other would do the same.

The standard pump can handle it. If you believe the Olds engineers did not know what they were doing, use the high volume version.

Norm

64Rocket

Use the, what I call the, heavy duty one. It is, M22F, the one with the extra thick plate on the bottom. Not the M-22HV high volume one. Like has been said, the high volume pump with a stock oil pan may cause problems. Not always but can happen. I always redrill the hole for the retaining pin for the spring. I move the hole .250. Gives you better oil pressure.

Gene

wolfman98

I hooked up set of guages to my 69-455 cause I hate idiot lights and I found that while warming up on faster idle the oil pressure is fine , maybe even higher than I expected. After the car is warm and sitting at lights the oil pressure drops below 20 psi I have seen it at 15. The people I have talked to about this tell me that it is normal for the 455 and I should only be concerned if it stays low at higher rpm.

MN71W30

The local well known builder told me that if you have 15 lbs at a hot idle and the pressure shoots up when you hit the gas it will be fine. That is the reason for shimming the spring or redrilling the pin hole for the spring .250. I had a 327 chevy that I had 15 pounds at an idle I then shimmed the spring the thickness of a 1/4-20 nut which is about .250 and I had 35 pounds at a hot idle.
It is probably senseless but I like to see a little higher oil pressure.

wolfman98

I just went through taking off the oilpan so I could change gasket and seals. This is no easy task without removing the motor.I did clean up the pump and as it worked ok I stayed with it. when I put the pan back on I spread a thin layer of the permatex blue on both sides of the gasket and hefty amount at the seals , especially where seals meet gasket. I am hoping that will cure oil leak around front seal. I also put in a new plug for good measure.

virtualwsp

I appreciate everyone's advice. Based on all that I've read and people that I have asked, I have to agree with the advice provided by 64Rocket and MN71W30.

So I am going to pick up a Mellings oil pump, M22F. Next I have to figure out how to "shimming the spring or redrilling the pin hole for the spring .250". But I'll cross that path when I get there. If any one has a picture that illustrates this, it is much appreciated.

Olds64

I purchased the Melling high volume oil pump but I put a Milodon 7 quart pan on the engine. I don't expect any problems.

tim72

Starting to be able to narrow down my issues with oil pressure. I am hearing from a few of the guys on the list that they also are running pressure around 8 to 15 psi at idle and 40 at 3000 rpm. What I find interesting is a lot of you have shimmed the pump ( however that is done) and increased pressure. My engine builder is going to try this. We also discused Restrictors and the results of there affect on upper end oil pressure. We think that the restrictors cause less pressure on the top end.

Redog

I just got my paws on a HV Meiling pump and screen combo along with a 5 quart Toro pan. Don't know if I got a new pump drive shaft or not. I'll have to look.

I was going to put this combo on my 330, but I've heard about the HV pumps before sucking the pan dry. This motor will be a street / strip motor. I was thinking about picking up one of those oil pan baffles from Mondello.

Will I be fine, or should I actually just buy a stock style pump? Also do I have to take off a main cap to replace the pump? I want to avoid removing a main cap until a full rebuild will be done

Olds64

As I recall you don't have to remove the main caps to replace the pump. I've also heard that a HV oil pump can suck a stock oil pan dry.

1971viking

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ild/index.html

Green Turd Truck

Hello, I've been meaning to ask these question for awhile, and I think they'll contribute to this thread as well, so I'll shoot.... Is it possible to drill out the oil return passages in the heads (and possibly block) slightly so the oil doesn't just sit in the top end of the motor? From what I've heard that's the biggest contributor to the whole system. I did find a link to this article awhile back on here that answered some questions I had, I am taking it into consideration and I'll post the link here; http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/olds...rs-156217.html I'd like to be able to rev to at least 5,500 safely to make use of the Edelbrock heads I will be using, and I'm also wondering if the oil return passages in the E'brocks are bigger than the stock heads, as well as if a 7 quart pan is enough to achieve these goals. Hopefully anyone with lots of racing experience on here can help us less experienced builders figure out why so many Olds motors are casualties of poor oiling systems!

Thanks!

Red71

I personally know of one 455 and two 400 (65-67 ) that had stock pans
and HV pumps that ate the crank shafts. One of the 400s was on the track, the other
400 (mine) was on a long country road rpm over 5500 for a mile or two. Same with the 455.
Have since rebuilt the 455 and my 400. The other 400 got replaced with a 455.
Two have the 7 qt pan and my 400 has the 8 qt and HV pumps and are driven the same as before and no problems.
I also now have a stock 455 w/ unknown miles that I put a HV pump and 8QT pan with
6qts of oil in it. I wring it out every time I get it out. 5500 rpm + long distances.

the way I do it , stock pan = stock pump , HV pump = deep pan.
or you could go stock pump deep pan and no problems with correct pick up.

oh and no the main cap does NOT need removed to change pump

507OLDS

Nate's drag car has a stock pan,with hi-vol pump,and it has been fine.It goes 9:40's or better all day.He offered to buy the big pan,but as some others think the same,Bill said "where's the oil going to go?"I have also run stock pans with hi-vol pumps without any issue.You can't exactly blame the pan for crank failure,but I can see how some might want to.You can have an abundance of oil,but if the bearings are too tight,you can't get the oil in there.I also know of a few guys that run less oil,when at the track,to lower their ET's,so that would be the same thing as running a stock pan.
yes,I have an 8qt Milodon pan in my 72,but one of the reasons is that I have a remote filter & cooler,which will take up some oil,and now the oil is not even in the engine itself.If you ran my cooler/filter set-up,with a 4qt pan,you WILL run out of oil.
I also like to have more oil to go around,to take on the contaminents of the engine.Let's think basic.Take a shot glass & fill it with milk.Take a regular drinking glass,and fill that with milk.Now add 2 tablespoons of chocolate syrup to each one,and stir.One's a lot stronger than the other,or if you look at as oil,one is a lot dirtier than the other.I still change the oil at 3,000 miles,or each season,whatever happens,and my used oil is still a gold color.Yes,you are still running all of the oil through the engine,whether it be 4qts or 10qts,but you have better oil per the contaminates percentage.Just my thought on that.

Run to Rund

The solution is to keep the oil from going up to the rocker box, not to enhance the drainback. If the lifters meter the correct, small amount of oil, most of the problems are fixed. Secondly, reasonable bearing clearances help. Third, keep the rod side clearances reasonable; stock is about .012" and that is good. If the shop rebuilding your rods takes a "nominal" .002" off the sides you end up with .020" and that will sling a lot of oil.

My442

My rebuilt 455 with blueprint clearances has oil pressure of 20-25 PSI hot at idle, and 55-60 PSI at cruise.

It has a Melling HV pump, a Milodon 7 quart pan, pick up, and windage tray.

Red71

excellent point 507 and Run to Rund make about bearing clearances and lifter metering.

1971viking

http://www.performanceboats.com/jet-...-pushrods.html

http://www.mondellotwister.com/RockersPushrods.htm

380 Racer

Personally I haven't used Mondello's high priced junk for many years. There are better Olds vendors out there.

bw1339

For a Melling M22FHV high volume pump, would pick up 22FHVS work with a Toro oil pan? I the pick up advertised for a huge number of vehicles, which makes me nervous. Is this supposed to be bent to the proper depth?

Thanks.

joe_padavano

That Melling pickup is designed for a RWD pan.

bw1339

Thanks. Any suggestions?

67OAI

bw1339, what engine and chassis are we talking about, how will you be using it and how is the engine built? In most cases the high volume pump is not necessary.

joe_padavano

Unless this engine is going in a Toro, the use of a Toro oil pan is not your best choice.

bw1339

The car is a '66 Toronado. Engine is a mostly stock '68 Toro engine. Mostly street driving, with occasional romps.

joe_padavano

Then you are probably stuck cutting and welding the Melling RWD pickup to match your pan.

67OAI

If you must use the high volume pump, I agree with Joe! I would stay with the standard volume pump in your situation.

bw1339

Thanks.