HonestDave

When I was converting this machine back to stock type intake manifold, I also took off the modified gas pedal linkage and have since lost or misplaced it.
I'm using the one from a 65 f-85 330 2 barrel model, but it doesn't seem to have enough travel to open the carb fully. Only appears to go about half way.

My questions are:

a) Would this be the correct linkage assembly for my 65 442, or was the f-85 different?

b) Would the stock carb have had a smaller total travel? I'm using a late seventies or early eighties Chev carb which may have had a cable rather than a metal rod.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

oldstata

Hey Dave look thru your old thread I now you have been plain with the poncho so here is a link might need to cut and paste as my I phone font like this sight much

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/442/80893-455-400-linkage-difference.html

HonestDave

Thanks Justin,
I just re-read that thread. I'm thinking now about the actual whole mechanism that bolts to the firewall. Wondering whether or not it's the same on a 65 442 as it was on a 65 f-85 2 barrel 330. If I know for sure they're identical, I'll leave this one on and work around it. If they're different, I might try and find a correct one, or another solution.

Still, I'm thinking of insuring the car tomorrow, so I suppose the hot starting issue takes precedence.

oldstata

From my understanding there the same but you might want to check Bros sight and see 442bro.com

oldcutlass

What I had to do with mine is bend the linkage up at the pedal and then adjust at the carb.

HonestDave

Some creative re-manufacturing.

Napoleon Solo

Oi!
If that car gets insured soon You'd better be coming out to the shop, buddy...

HonestDave

I insured the car yesterday. Just want to iron out a few more wrinkles before any long drives. The vacuum improved quite a bit when I took out the old, hardened thing that was under the carb. I put a better old, hardened thing under. Next I'm going to buy a new gasket with the four separate holes, and put that under, and measure the vacuum. It's slowly getting better.

I don't think I'll be keeping the car. It's just way too altered. It's built to reach speed quickly. Some kid will go ape-sh-t in it. I need something a bit more relaxing to drive. Late fifties to early seventies, highway gears, not too much power. Four speed might be nice, but not critical.

Anyway, lots of things to work on with this for the moment, but it's sort of roadworthy.

oldspackrat

I don't know if this helps but I have the complete linkage from a '65 Delta on ebay right now. Might be the same, might be different? Search under user name oldspackrat or
Link to pix.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Oldsmob...e=STRK:MESE:IT

TripDeuces

I'm confused whether you are replacing the original 2bbl with a 4bbl or staying with a 2bbl?
If switching to a 4bbl then the linkage will be off because the 2bbl linkage is more centered between mounting holes where as the 4bbl is biased toward the front of the manifold. You're talking maybe 1-1 1/2 inches difference.
If just switching from the Olds 2bbl to a Chevy 2bbl the difference should be minimal.

Regardless of the above I would do this. Set the carb at WOT and let the idle position fall where it may. Disconnect the linkage at the carb and have a buddy hold the pedal to the floor and turn the linkage until you achieve alignment with WOT on the carb. Hopefully it will have enough travel to return to the idle setting. The pedal may be in a different place but as long as you have full travel on the linkage you should be gtg.

HonestDave

The whole gas pedal linkage assembly from carb to pedal was from a 330 2 barrel. The carb I'm using is a 4 barrel. The part that bolts to the firewall (linkage/kickdown switch) has very little travel compared to the throttle on the carb. Thus, it only opens about half way, or slightly more.
I've changed the rod from carb to kickdown switch assembly so it works, just not much travel.
It used to have lots of travel, but I've lost the piece that was on the car when I got it. It also had on Offy dual quad type set-up. I've made numerous changes, and it's taking time to get things right.
Actually, they may never be quite right. The f-block 455 probably had a cable driven carb, not linkage. I'm probably trying to match things that never mated from the factory.
Such is life.

Oldsmaniac

Your picture seems to show the linkage has been modified. Where the threaded rod goes thru there is usually a ball stud there not the threaded barrel nut thats attached. I dont know if this is a problem. 2bbl vs 4bbl usually has 2 different length rods to carb and slightly different bends on them.

oldolds88

65 delta is completly different than an a body.

Octania

Put some numbers on this:
measure the available horizontal travel at the firewall mechanism.

measure the required horizontal travel at the carb pin or hole used by the rod.

Compare the two.

Adjust arm length on one or both as required so that travel available slightly exceeds travel required. The closer the rod end or or rod pivot pin is to the pivot, the less horizontal travel is seen at the pin or rod end.

So, if your C-brand carb arm's pivot is further away from the throttle shaft than say your '65's original carb was, it will require more travel from one end of its motion to the other.

We will assume that the pin or rod end is moving to/from points equally fore/aft of the pivot [the throttle shaft], like any clever engineer would do in this case, and never getting anywhere near in line or over-center. Though I have seen stranger things.

A nice 45 degrees forward of the throttle shaft to 45 degrees aft at WOT would be perfect. Well, I guess the throttle shaft does not need _quite_ 90 degrees of motion.

HonestDave

The original ball stud is still there, but it's on the inside. I had to put a stud on the outside to get enough clearance for the HEI.

If only I hadn't lost the linkage / kickdown assembly that was there when I got the car. It just needed a piece welded on the inside section for the pedal to roll on, but I think it fell off the shelf into my box of scrap that went to metal recycling.

HonestDave

I'll take a good look at all these points you've mentioned. Over the next week or two I should find more time. Excellent points.

nsnarsk65cutlass

The factory rod to carb on the 4 bbl attaches to the ball stud on the inside part of the linkage.This may or may not increase the amount of travel.

HonestDave

I had to put a stud on the outside to get clearance for the distributor cap. I thought it would be such a good thing. Thought maybe I could use the electric kick-down to operate the T-400, but the travel is way less than the one I took off.......which I then lost.
My electrical guy has a 64 Skylark, and he seems to think I need to find an assembly from a car like his, to get the travel I now want.

It's always painful when you start to mix and match from different cars. Judging by the new looking drive shaft and crossmember location, it wasn't just an easy swap when someone stuck in the T-400, either.

Ozzie

The parts book makes me think that all the linkages are different from all the other linkages; "A" body is different from "B" body; 2 bbl. is different from 4 bbl.; manual is different from automatic; the Chevy carb. should be a quadrajet while the '65 442 was a 4GC originally. You may have to fabricate as needed.

HonestDave

I believe you're right.

There's something to be said for taking a stock vehicle, and just leaving it stock.

stan 65 cutlass

i think you need to change your pivot points, can you move or drill a new hole closer to the center of the carb end? or move the pivot further out on the firewall end?? hate to see a brother with only half throttle

HonestDave

I think I can alter positions at some point. I probably should have got a 65 442 intake manifold to start with. I always read about guys throwing them out, but I forgot the carbs were different. Now I have a nice 3721S from a 64 300 horse 327, but I don't feel like changing the manifold again.

oldstata

Dave, I don't understanding do you need the rod from carb to fire wall or do you think the problem is gas peddle to fire wall ?

HonestDave

I think the problem is the wrong firewall to carb rod combined with the wrong carb.
If I had the correct intake, the correct carb and the correct linkage, all would be good.
As is often the case, I'm trying to piece together bits that were never meant to mate.
As Chief Dan George once said, I will endeavor to persevere.

oldstata

Can you take a pic of the carb side I have extra rod that I bought when I made mine I might be able to fab you something up from carb to firewall

oldstata

Here is the one I made for my Eddie with a 330 I know the bug blocks are about 2" taller so I am guessing Might need to add like a half inch or more drop to account the heigh change
D2DA6648-64C7-498F-9482-7AFA245DA0CF.jpg

HonestDave

Nice looking creation, Justin. I'll take another picture or two and let you have a look. I appreciate your offer to manufacture me something. It may not come to that, though. I might be able to sort this out with clues I've been given so far.
We'll see.