Bens71442

I have yet to see- one single picture- from the 1970 model year- of the Firestone Wide Oval- (as what can be purchased today from Coker Wheels) on "ANY" 1970 American car.

Every single picture I have seen- of a GM car in a road test report- or GM Press photo- from the year Ninteen SEVENTY (1970) I see the following tires......

either the "Uniroyal Tiger Paw" "Goodyear Poly Glass 14x6 _or 7 or White striped tires or black walls.

For 1971- Yes I seen all of the above (with an addition to) the Firestone Wide Oval- (which can be purcased through coker today)

prove me wrong- gets you a six pack of your favorite beer. But I better see a clear Vintage period correct black and white or color picture of the "Firestone Wide Oval" shown in this blog- (as which can be purcased TODAY- by Coker tire co. etc...

I'm talking 1970 model year only and not the PRESS picture- taken in (yes- 1970) of the drk Blue 1971 "SEVENTY ONE" 442 convertible- with W-25 with the license plate of OLDS- car has Firestone WIDE OVALS- as what can be purchased by Coker tire and rubber co.

That Firestone Tire- the Wide Oval- must have been used in addition to the above tires- for the 1971 Model year-on......

For the 1970 model year- since they dont make- Uniroyal Tiger Paws- reproduction tires- Id go with Goodyear Poly glass for Authenticity.

and yes- my Black W-31 has the Wrong Tires on it- wearing Firestones Wide Ovals- BUT THE ORIGINAL TRUNK SPARE- is a Uniroyal Tiger Paw.

Elephant_Engine_Ernie

mmurphy77

Looks like you just got yourself some beer!

Bens71442

Can you verify the year that picture was taken- I mean the car looks rather new- but- is that the cars first set of tires in that pic? (Is the original spare still in the trunk?)

i wanna see one GM press picture- of those tires ona 1970 Muscle car?

That picture could very well be taken in 1975 1976- after a tire replacement-

hurst68olds

Can we see pics? Is it fiberglass belted or nylon cord? What is the assembly date of the F85 W31? What is the DOT code on the tire?

Thanks!!

Bens71442

Yes: a date code of those tires- (on spare) will tell me if that car left Lansing wearing Firestone Wide Ovals.

again: I press anyone: to show me a picture of a press photo- (vintage August 1969- June- or even July 1970 showing any GM passenger car- wearing the Wide Oval tire shown in those pics.

I have researched this extensively; and the only tires I see in order of most seen to least are: Goodyear Poly Glass- Uniroyal Tiger Paws; a standard Back wall tire (i.e Ralley 350) or a White striped tires- which came on Cutlass Supreme as well as availaible on CUtlass "S"

Need a date code off that spare to settle this- That picture might as well have been taken in 1984

Bens71442

Ok- Ive come to accept that indeed a Firestone Wide Oval was available and did come on a 1970 W-31 from the facory- (however) This phenomina (sp) falls under the same issue with the "Dimpled front fenders" of 1971 cars as it would apply to build date:

My 71 W-30 had its original fenders- (non-dimpled- flat fenders) production date of that car was January 27, 1971 (Ive seen cars with dimpled fenders) of a production date following mine- (roughly March -April- 71) even some cars equipped with one dimpled fender and one flat fender in this time frame of March April.

Same thing must have happened late in the build for 1970- as most (in fact- all press pictures show no Wide Ovals in 1969 build cars through (i'll go out on a limb here- April 1970)

So if ya wanna get really serious- on Firestone Wide Oval - as far as being Authentic- your A-body should have been built on or after April 1970- to be wearing Firestone Wide Ovals.

so I stand corrected. To whom made the point- I'll need a address to which I can send you that 6 pac- IF your cars build date is AFTER or in April 1970- in using "as what can be purchased today as a re-production tire" the {Firestone Wide Oval} RWL tire.





QUOTE=Bens71442;305858]Yes: a date code of those tires- (on spare) will tell me if that car left Lansing wearing Firestone Wide Ovals.

again: I press anyone: to show me a picture of a press photo- (vintage August 1969- June- or even July 1970 showing any GM passenger car- wearing the Wide Oval tire shown in those pics.

I have researched this extensively; and the only tires I see in order of most seen to least are: Goodyear Poly Glass- Uniroyal Tiger Paws; a standard Back wall tire (i.e Ralley 350) or a White striped tires- which came on Cutlass Supreme as well as availaible on CUtlass "S"

Need a date code off that spare to settle this- That picture might as well have been taken in 1984[/QUOTE]

Smallhurst

Uniroyals, Firestones, and Goodyears were all available from the factory at Lansing. In some instances, it was what trailer happened to be backed up to the plant at the time.

442much

From 1981. Originals on my 442. Uniroyal Steel Belted Radial, they don't reproduce these either.

car1981.jpg

ROCKET VAPOR

My forth week of March, assembled in Fremont was originaly equipted with Firestone Wide Ovals.

leepear

My car was built in Feb 1970 with firestones in the lansing plant. I have pictures dated 4-70 showing the tires delivered on his car. An original owner 1970 dated before mine came with Firestones too as stated by the owner that still has the car. If someone tells me how to read the date code I will check my original firestone spare for date code too.

Lee

hurst68olds

One of the contributing problems concerning the 1970 "model year" & tires is the required DOT codes were NOT standardized. Mandated/standardized DOT codes went into effect during the 1971 "calander year". I can decode early Goodyear DOT date codes, but have found NO info on the early Firestone codes & they appear to be a serial number vs. a date code.

All the '70 442/W30/Rallye 350 brochures/ paperwork etc show:
W30 - STANDARD - PK5 - G70x14" bias ply, glass-belted blackwalls with raised white letters
442 - STANDARD - P26 - G70x14" bias ply, glass-belted with white stripe
Cutlass S W-Machine - STANDARD - PK5 - G70x14" bias ply, glass-belted blackwalls with raised white letters
Rallye 350 - STANDARD - G70x14" bias-belted wide-oval blackwall tires

If anyone has any contradicting or supporting info please add it.

I think we can all agree that the performance tire available on the 1970 Oldsmobile muscle a-body was G70x14" in size & bias-ply, (fiber)glass-belted in construction.

Fiberglass belted tires were invented by Armstrong in the mid-'60s, Goodyear (purchased/developed?) the manufacturing process & brought "polyglas" (polyester ply-fiberglass belted) tires to the OE musclecar market in 1968. Due to cost, these were only used by Oldsmobile (in 1968 & '69) as STANDARD equiptment on the '68 & '69 H/O.

When did Firestone bring a fiberglass-belted tire to market? Steel-belted ("Polysteel" in Goodyear speak) tires showed up in the mid-'70s.

Firestone Wide Oval "Super Sports" were bias-ply non-belted tires & were available in RWL, red stripe, white stripe & black wall. NOT AVAILABLE on a '70 Oldsmobile.

Firestone Wide Oval "SUPR - BELT" were bias-ply fiberglass-belted tires & were available in RWL, red stripe, white stripe & black wall.

Rocket Vapor's spare is a "SUPR - BELT", what's the DOT code?

hurst68olds

Goodyear Polyglas F60-15 DOT code # MBUD DL1147

MB - Akron II, OH Goodyear - plant
UD - F60-15 - size
DL1 - polyester-ply fiberglass-belt - type
147 - 14th week of 1977 - date

hurst68olds

Firestone Wide Oval "SUPR-BELT" F60-15 DOT # VDUD DL1013 on a 6/12/72 dated wheel

VD - Decatur, IL Firestone - plant
UD - F60-15 - size
DL1 - polyester-ply fiberglass belt - type
013 - 1st week of 1973 - date

gglow

My two cents. Took delivery of my twilight blue 1970 442 in May 1970.
Option PK5 Wide Oval tires - raised letters $26.33. Yes,they were Firestones.

hurst68olds

Tire plant DOT codes are listed here: http://www.harriger.com/tires.htm

Current reproduction Firestone & Goodyear (Made in USA) bias-ply glass-belted tires are manufactured at "CY" - Indiana, PA. McCreary Tire & Rubber plant.

leepear

Ok Joe: I have the cover at home now too. Saw your friend with the w-31 at the Nationals in Reno. Nice car. Told him to let you know he saw my car too.

Lee

hurst68olds

1. Most wheels I've seen with a date on them have: Plant, Year, Month, & Day - Can you explain your's?

2. Can you explain this for myself & others, or decode the dates on the pictured pre-'71 Firestones pictured below?

3. So the build date on your cowl tag is 04_?

Allan R

I just did a web search using Coker tire for a source. They sell the Firestone wide oval tires (obviously re popped with permission from Firestrone) for 213.00 each

BlackGold

OK, it sounds like someone's already claimed the beer but I've got some more evidence of original installation of Firestone tires for Ben.

I have a small collection of car-related magazines from 1969 and 1970. The only issues I have are those I've collected off eBay because they have an article about the 1970 W-30. Ben's right in that every picture of a W-30 shows Goodyear tires on the car. However, I paged through each magazine looking for Firestone Wide Oval tires on non-Oldsmobiles and found a couple examples:

Carcraft magazine, March 1970 issue, an article starting on page 20, titled "Midyears from GM: Firebird, Camero, Corvette"
-- The bottom of p. 22 shows a Camero SS with Firestone Wide Ovals.
-- The top of p. 23 shows a Corvette with Firestone Wide Ovals.

HotRod magazine, April 1970 issue, an article on page 40, titled "Winged-Foot Street Rod"
-- A photo shows a Mercury Cyclone w/ 429 CobraJet wearing Firestone Wide Ovals.

Note that the cars in these articles were factory-supplied, not owned by some random citizen. Of course, we'll never know if someone from the magazine replaced the tires for some reason.

Sorry I didn't scan the pictures for you. I'm lazy. You'll just have to trust me (or find your own copies).

BlackGold

Are you saying that you can decode pre-'70 Goodyears? If so, please share -- teach us how. I, too, have heard that each tire plant used their own coding scheme. I'd love to decode my original spare.

70 w-30

My 70 w-30 which I bought in August of 76 had the original spare in the trunk. It's still in the trunk, I'll have to get to my storage place look at it and get a pic.

hurst68olds

So far we've accumulated some circumstantial evidence concerning '70 442 & W-30 tire usage, but WHY has nobody gone on record with facts of their car/tire? I don't even own a '70 Olds, but am willing to help. I guess in the "big picture" not many people care, but what is the danger of knowing the facts or assembling some kind of time-frame where certain tires were used at different plants? Tires have a big visual impact on a car & when you hear comments about someone saving money so they can put bias-plys on their restoration, wouldn't it be nice to know what is "correct"?

Is it the same dilemma as not wanting to share info that may confirm one's car is or isn't a 442 W-30 and/or "all original" based on facts?

Goodyear Polyglas early 8/69 to 12/69
Uniroyal Tiger Paw
Firestone Wide Oval late 4/70 to 7/70

There is a bunch of complaining about lack of knowledge by car show judging, just look at the Reno Nat's thread. I guess the "STOCK" old car, muscle or otherwise, is a dying breed. I find that a shame.

Yes, I can decode pre-11 digit ('66-'71?) Goodyear DOT codes. The only source I've found for this information is:

Chrysler Corporation Part & Casting Numbers Book 1962-1974 Volume II by Galen Govier (one of his "white books")

There are a couple charts & pages covering "Tire Date Codes"

With the '70 442 W-30 being the "top of the line" Oldsmobile musclecar & built in significant numbers, I didn't think this would be a difficult question/discussion.

BlackGold

Thanks for the Galen Govier reference, hurst68olds. I'll try to find a copy.
I wasn't aware there had been a call for us to go on record with such info. Here's mine:
1970 Olds 442 W-30
Goodyear Polyglas
Built 4th week of October, 1969
Lansing assembly plant

While I haven't decoded my spare's date code yet, I am 99.99% certain it is the original spare. Why? The tire has a paint splotch which lines up with a "BB" weld on the wheel. The paint splotch reportedly designates the tire's low spot, and the BB reportedly designates the wheel's high spot. The factory actually went to the effort of aligning tires on wheels to make the finished product more round. At least that's the story I've heard from someone who worked in Lansing back in the day. The chances of a tire shop doing the same with a replacement tire is pretty slim, in my opinion.

Smallhurst

I believe that you are wrong to bracket the era of the tires available by dates. Often times, it was the availability of the the tires to the factory at the time of assembly.

As for teh term 'wide oval', in the land of Ford, it was simply a term used for a lower profile tire. Many '68 1/2 Mustang owners are confused when they get their Marty report to see 'wide oval' when all of the cars came out with Polyglas in the F70-14 size.

Boiler_81

Agree, on the availablility. I have worked for a supplier in the auto industry since 1982. It is very uncommon for a supplier to be desourced and a new supplier brought in mid model year. Since it appears as if both tires were used in 1970, I would expect you would see an intermixing of usage through out the year.

Indy Guy

My 70 W-31 that was built 03/70, lists on the dealer sheet for tires... wide oval raised letters

ROCKET VAPOR

Below is some of the codes that are machined into the tire mold on the back side of tire.

"G70-14"

Outlined circle with "V-1" printed in the center.

"DOT 147"

"7-UR-3"

"BD-50405"

Below is some more codes printed on the back side of tire, but these codes were machined into changable "inserts" placed into the tire mold.

"H33A"

DOT code ??? "001098QA"

hurst68olds

Sorry Joe, it wasn't an inquisition. Just trying to help figure this out.

From the '70 "Assembly Manual" posted at www.wildaboutcars.com

1970
OLDSMOBILE PRODUCT INFORMATION MANUAL
A SERIES: CHART - TIRE USAGE, MANUAL SECTION 10, PAGE 90, PART # 406364, 3/25/69
34467 - 34477 - 34487 (442)
STANDARD tire code L9DM (was 26)
OPTION PK5 - "black wall super sports wide oval tire w/RWL" tire code L9DS (was 21)
OPTION Y74 - "pace car, black wall tire w/RWL" tire code 74 (added ?/4/70)
note:
the new code is the last 4 digits of the 8 digit serial number and will be painted on the tire tread at 3 locations

74 - G70 X 14 wide oval black wall with raised white letters
#409134 - Firestone ("INDY 500" in RWL)
#409066 - Goodyear ("SPEEDWAY" in RWL)

L9DM - G70 X 14 wide oval fiberglass belted white stripe (OPTION PX8)
#3949131 - Uniroyal
#3949125 - Firestone
#3949129 - Goodrich
#3949127 - Goodyear

L9DS - G70 X 14 wide oval black wall with raised white letters
#3974781 - Uniroyal (added 8/22/69)
#3974780 - Firestone
#3974782 - Goodrich (added 8/22/69)
#3974783 - Goodyear

I have a G70-14 RWL Goodyear Polyglas with the L9DS code, the full DOT code is BCNBL9DS

BC - date - 33rd week of 1970
NB - plant - Akron II, Ohio Goodyear
L9 - size - G70-14
DS - type - fiberglass belted w/RWL

It was in the trunk of my H/O for a while, but based on the date was probably out of the trunk of an early '71 442?

hurst68olds

ROCKET VAPOR, that's a similar problem with a tire I purchased for the trunk of my '67. I haven't seen any info about the dates/serial numbers on pre-'71 Firestones.

"F70-14"

NYLON

Super Sports - WIDE OVAL

Outlined circle with "V-1" printed in the center.

DOT code - "000263PE"

Smallhurst

Especially on something like tires, a company is not going to tie themselves down to a single supplier. Something happens to the tire plant, supplies to them go awry, and the tire supply chain goes down. Not something that the plant wants to deal with.

Multiple sources are used to insure that the plant is not put in a bad position.

mmurphy77

From what I've read, the term "Wide Oval" was a general term used by all manufacturers and referred to the advent of the wider tire aspect ratio as early as 1968 and didn't necessarily mean the FIRESTONE Wide Oval. Firestone was just smart enough to capitalize on the term. A lot of factory info will state 'wide oval' as a generic term and not in reference to a specific brand (as we know there were many tire suppliers for the same model). Just my $.02

Smallhurst

Completely correct!!!

70-442-W30

I've got no picture of the car for you, but this advertisement mentions "wide ovals" on a W-30 and the date is December 28th, 1969:

BlackGold

But note that the Product Information Manual refers to the tires as "Wide Oval" regardless of who made them. It seems to be a generic term, at least as far as Oldsmobile was concerned. To wit:

Special Tire code L9DS is described as:
G70x14 WIDE OVAL B/W WITH WHITE RAISED LETTERS (PK5).

And option PK5 is described as:
PK5 IS BLACK WALL SUPER SPPORT WIDE OVAL TIRE WITH WHITE RAISED LETTERS.

This is on the same page which lists the four tire manufacturers and their GM part numbers.

70-442-W30

Maybe the manufacturer would refer to them as that, but would the dealer? Especially when it was somewhat of a new term? Hard to tell.

70-442-W30

I'd like to present Exhibit "B", clearly Firestone Wide Ovals, from a November 1969 ad:

Bens71442

So: it appears the term "Wide Oval" was used from 68-1970 through but does not mean that todays "Firestone Wide Oval Tire" see photo.....was out prior to 1971. That's what I've seen through press photos and road test reports from these years. I've only seen the following tire on 1971 and later press photos. Goodyear Polyglass and Uniroyal Tiger paws were used in addition to white stripe tires which also appears to have been used from 1968-1972 if not ordered with RWL tires.

70-442-W30

Elephant_Engine_Ernie just posted this photo in another thread (Feb 1970 - Chicago Auto Show). You'll have to zoom in some, but you can see it plain as day. See below:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...autoshow40.jpg

anthonyP

Is this one of the longest lasting threads - the last post was in August 2011 and then started again September 2016.

It looks as though Oldsmobile doctored the photos in the 1970 W-machine brochure so you could not determine what brand RWL tires were on the cars.

My sister's '70 Cutlass was delivered new with Goodyear Polyglas tires. My brother's '71 442 was delivered new with Uniroyal Tiger Paws. After the "Rain Tire" disproved itself, new Michelin "X" tires were installed. No comparison during inclement weather or handling wise.

Does anyone recall seeing a new '70 442 or Cutlass with General tires? Or even more so, a new 70-72 442 or Cutlass with Goodrich tires?