67 442 cowl tag help
August 3rd, 2011, 07:15 PM
#42
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
...................Where do you go to get all of this information?
Wild About Cars. http://wildaboutcars.com
You'll find Chassis Service Manuals, Product Information Manuals (AKA Assembly Manuals), Inspector's Manuals, and other documents that will contain this and much much more.
Wild About Cars. http://wildaboutcars.com
You'll find Chassis Service Manuals, Product Information Manuals (AKA Assembly Manuals), Inspector's Manuals, and other documents that will contain this and much much more.
August 3rd, 2011, 09:17 PM
#43
Registered User
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Location: Northeast Connecticut
Posts: 780
This is the reason so many posts go unanswered.. I have read some replies that one would think that the person was a rabid dog, rather than an other human being. We all make mistakes, but it seems that some members must boost their egos by viciously going after others. I have already learned in a short time on this website, who's posts I will not reply to, even if I have the correct information at hand. Life is too short to fight over who is right and wrong when it comes to car advise. People will thresh through the information and glean out the seeds from the chaff. Patience with others is a virtue.
August 4th, 2011, 10:07 AM
#44
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
The comment below is general observation about most car based website, not specifically classicolds.com.
This is the reason so many posts go unanswered.. I have read some replies that one would think that the person was a rabid dog, rather than an other human being. We all make mistakes, but it seems that some members must boost their egos by viciously going after others. I have already learned in a short time on this website, who's posts I will not reply to, even if I have the correct information at hand. Life is too short to fight over who is right and wrong when it comes to car advise. People will thresh through the information and glean out the seeds from the chaff. Patience with others is a virtue.
This is the reason so many posts go unanswered.. I have read some replies that one would think that the person was a rabid dog, rather than an other human being. We all make mistakes, but it seems that some members must boost their egos by viciously going after others. I have already learned in a short time on this website, who's posts I will not reply to, even if I have the correct information at hand. Life is too short to fight over who is right and wrong when it comes to car advise. People will thresh through the information and glean out the seeds from the chaff. Patience with others is a virtue.
August 5th, 2011, 06:25 AM
#46
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980 C is a black "custom sport front seat". StratoBench wasn't offered on the Cutlass in 67, only big cars. The custom sport front seat is a split bench with folding armrest. It was option code A65. A no cost option in place of the 442's standard Strato bucket seats
Here's my 67's trim tag:
Here's my 67's trim tag:
In simple terms it means a "deluxe" bench seat as opposed to the standard bench. This "Custom Sport" term was a carry over from '66 and applied to both A and B bodies. But in '67, they introduced a "more deluxe" bench for the Delta Custom, so in addition to the Custom Sport bench (and the standard bench) there was the "Strato Bench".
Man - yuse gots lotsa letters on that trim tag!! Ya know what they all mean? If not, our guru here Kurt (Wmachines) can tell ya all what each of those letters and numbers on each of the lines means!
Identifying a true factory 67 W 30 is an altogether different animal!!!
Identifying a true factory 67 W 30 is an altogether different animal!!!
W Tinted windshield
X Power Windows
F Power Seat
S Power Trunk
Column 2
E Air Conditioning
R Rear speaker
Column 3
Can't see it, but I'll bet it is "B" for the rear defogger
Column 5
V 442 trim
J *Deluxe* center rear seat belt
This last letter (J) is interesting in that the code for deluxe belts (front & rear) is Y. The lack of the Y here indicates that the J means that there are front & rear *and* center rear deluxe belts. So though I've not seen it, there must me another code for center rear *standard* belts.
I'm never sure of anything because someone seems to always call you out about it -- but that being said ---- I believe that the special Type P cone-style posi rear came with the W-30 package -- 3.90 gears with the Automatic --- other ratios were no-cost option on the order. My recollection was that was the "standard" rear in the W cars?
I really dont recall seeing "anti-slip" as a cost option on the sticker?
If I tried, I could come up with the cost options on all that i remeber on the car and see how close I could come to the 3507.00 sticker price.
I'm sure W-Machine Kurt or Curt A. would know the answer for certain??
I really dont recall seeing "anti-slip" as a cost option on the sticker?
If I tried, I could come up with the cost options on all that i remeber on the car and see how close I could come to the 3507.00 sticker price.
I'm sure W-Machine Kurt or Curt A. would know the answer for certain??
The would be a "required" option, not to be confused with an "included" option. This would show up on the window sticker with a price. Just like the L78 442 option shows up with a W30.
August 5th, 2011, 07:17 AM
#47
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Location: Dover, Ohio
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My bad. The correct term for the '67 A-body A65 bench seat is indeed the "Custom Sport" bench, which is what I meant to refer too.
In simple terms it means a "deluxe" bench seat as opposed to the standard bench. This "Custom Sport" term was a carry over from '66 and applied to both A and B bodies. But in '67, they introduced a "more deluxe" bench for the Delta Custom, so in addition to the Custom Sport bench (and the standard bench) there was the "Strato Bench".
Column 1
W Tinted windshield
X Power Windows
F Power Seat
S Power Trunk
Column 2
E Air Conditioning
R Rear speaker
Column 3
Can't see it, but I'll bet it is "B" for the rear defogger
Column 5
V 442 trim
J *Deluxe* center rear seat belt
This last letter (J) is interesting in that the code for deluxe belts (front & rear) is Y. The lack of the Y here indicates that the J means that there are front & rear *and* center rear deluxe belts. So though I've not seen it, there must me another code for center rear *standard* belts.
The G80 Anti-Spin was a requirement for the '66-'67 W30s and were spec'd as the P-type 10-bolt with the 4-pinion Anti-Spin carrier.
The would be a "required" option, not to be confused with an "included" option. This would show up on the window sticker with a price. Just like the L78 442 option shows up with a W30.
In simple terms it means a "deluxe" bench seat as opposed to the standard bench. This "Custom Sport" term was a carry over from '66 and applied to both A and B bodies. But in '67, they introduced a "more deluxe" bench for the Delta Custom, so in addition to the Custom Sport bench (and the standard bench) there was the "Strato Bench".
Column 1
W Tinted windshield
X Power Windows
F Power Seat
S Power Trunk
Column 2
E Air Conditioning
R Rear speaker
Column 3
Can't see it, but I'll bet it is "B" for the rear defogger
Column 5
V 442 trim
J *Deluxe* center rear seat belt
This last letter (J) is interesting in that the code for deluxe belts (front & rear) is Y. The lack of the Y here indicates that the J means that there are front & rear *and* center rear deluxe belts. So though I've not seen it, there must me another code for center rear *standard* belts.
The G80 Anti-Spin was a requirement for the '66-'67 W30s and were spec'd as the P-type 10-bolt with the 4-pinion Anti-Spin carrier.
The would be a "required" option, not to be confused with an "included" option. This would show up on the window sticker with a price. Just like the L78 442 option shows up with a W30.
August 5th, 2011, 08:33 AM
#48
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According to ordering info, both were available. Which simply means that a center rear belt in standard form would be an accessory code other than J.
August 5th, 2011, 08:35 AM
#49
Lt. Buzzkill (ret.)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Western New York
Posts: 1,297
Thanks for the great decode info Kurt.
Interesting that Olds spec'd the P axle for W30 and manual trans cars. I always thought the O axle to be the stronger of the two, but apparently Olds engineering didn't think so. At least until the 31-spline version was in production. Any light to shed on that?
Interesting that Olds spec'd the P axle for W30 and manual trans cars. I always thought the O axle to be the stronger of the two, but apparently Olds engineering didn't think so. At least until the 31-spline version was in production. Any light to shed on that?
August 5th, 2011, 09:58 AM
#50
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Thanks for the great decode info Kurt.
Interesting that Olds spec'd the P axle for W30 and manual trans cars. I always thought the O axle to be the stronger of the two, but apparently Olds engineering didn't think so. At least until the 31-spline version was in production. Any light to shed on that?
Interesting that Olds spec'd the P axle for W30 and manual trans cars. I always thought the O axle to be the stronger of the two, but apparently Olds engineering didn't think so. At least until the 31-spline version was in production. Any light to shed on that?
The O-type *was*originally slated for use in the '67 W30s, as late as Dec '66. But earlier tests found them "shucking the teeth" of the ring gears in hard launches using steep (like 4.33) gears. Since Olds was not (yet) making the steep gears, they were using Chebby gears that were not designed for the weight and torque of the Oldsmobiles. So with no quick fix available, Olds went back to the P-type for their run of '67 W30s in the early spring of '67.
August 7th, 2011, 08:47 AM
#52
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Posts: 3,841
Kurt, iirc, that response is a quote from a magazine, and I think it is only partially correct. Checking the parts books, Olds didn't have the performance ratios for the O diff. ready in time, and perhaps some of the GM diffs they tried weren't strong enough. Which ones, I don't know for sure. The P 10 bolt wasn't very strong either. I think the biggest reason for continuing with the P rear is that the ratios Olds wanted were available. I wish they had "borrowed" Chevelle 12 bolts before the 68 model year/Canadian built cars, lol.
August 7th, 2011, 05:20 PM
#53
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Kurt, iirc, that response is a quote from a magazine, and I think it is only partially correct. Checking the parts books, Olds didn't have the performance ratios for the O diff. ready in time, and perhaps some of the GM diffs they tried weren't strong enough. Which ones, I don't know for sure. The P 10 bolt wasn't very strong either. I think the biggest reason for continuing with the P rear is that the ratios Olds wanted were available. I wish they had "borrowed" Chevelle 12 bolts before the 68 model year/Canadian built cars, lol.
You're quite right, Joe that article was from the April '67 Hot Rod.
But there were others like Bob Handran (still has the '67 W30 he bought new) who had similar experiences with the early O types with steep gears. Granted, the Cheby 12 bolts would have been a stronger choice. I don't believe it had anything to do with NHRA and "stock" classification, because the P-type was Pontiac anyway. I suspect that resistance from Chebby was a factor, because they were reluctant to give *anything* up, especially something that would compete against them on the drag strip.
December 1st, 2011, 05:04 AM
#54
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Location: Southern California
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In 67 all 442s were based on the Cutlass, not the F85, so the VIN begins with 338077, 338177, or 338677 with the first 3 being Olds, the last 7 being for 1967. 3807 was the Sports Coupe (2 door sedan), 3817 was Holiday Coupe (2 door hardtop), and 3867 the convertible. The 5V on the Lansing 442 cowl tags was discussed above. Any other parts like the engine could have been swapped years ago. The original engine was a 400 (390925E next to the oil filler) and the rear lower control arms were boxed with a sway bar between them. The original 442 hood was louvered, a 442-only part.
Thanks
December 1st, 2011, 05:26 AM
#55
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The 3867 means that it is specifically a "Cutlass Supreme Convertible" model. In '67, the 442 was an option and has nothing to do with the model identification.
December 1st, 2011, 06:27 AM
#56
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They somehow didnt see fit to ID the W30 either in the VIN or on the cowl tag but they DID make sure they included a tag code for my Center rear seat belt AND my Power Rear Antenna!!! Boy, are we sure ever thankful for that !! Whew!!!! Dont know how we would have survived without that info!!! Naaa! Nobody would have ever had any reason to easily identify a factory 442 with a factory installed W30 option package! Yeah- right? Go figger! LOL
December 1st, 2011, 08:20 AM
#57
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They somehow didnt see fit to ID the W30 either in the VIN or on the cowl tag but they DID make sure they included a tag code for my Center rear seat belt AND my Power Rear Antenna!!! Boy, are we sure ever thankful for that !! Whew!!!! Dont know how we would have survived without that info!!! Naaa! Nobody would have ever had any reason to easily identify a factory 442 with a factory installed W30 option package! Yeah- right? Go figger! LOL
The body tag only had body related info on them. The accessory codes were only identifying modifications (piercings, brackets, etc.) needed to the body for the options that need them. And plants other than Lansing and Framingham didn't even have those codes. In light of that, we're lucky to have what info is there to begin with!
December 1st, 2011, 08:36 AM
#58
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Tweed, do keep in mind what the body tag is. It was *not*put there to refer to 40 years later to identify how the car was originally made. You know you are supposed to *keep receipts* for that reason!!
The body tag only had body related info on them. The accessory codes were only identifying modifications (piercings, brackets, etc.) needed to the body for the options that need them. And plants other than Lansing and Framingham didn't even have those codes. In light of that, we're lucky to have what info is there to begin with!
The body tag only had body related info on them. The accessory codes were only identifying modifications (piercings, brackets, etc.) needed to the body for the options that need them. And plants other than Lansing and Framingham didn't even have those codes. In light of that, we're lucky to have what info is there to begin with!
My argument in defense/support of that rationale is why wasnt there a code put somewhere for the "punched" holes for battery in trunk vent if they made a code for punched hole in rear fender for rear antenna? There could haven been a code put somewhere for the punched core support or the puched holes in the frame?? All we know is that it NEVER happened! UGH!!
December 1st, 2011, 08:47 AM
#59
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Like Kurt said, the cowl tag is body related for Fisher Body plant use. The front clip was added at the assembly liine after being painted separately (hence sometimes there was a slight paint mismatch between the fnders/hood and the rest of the body). The radiator core support was different on 66-7 W3-0s of course, since it was punched for the ducts. However, it was installed on the line so there was nothing for Fisher to do differently--just the 442 trim and floor shift hole/reinforcement (if used). Similarly, the 66-7 W30 frames were drilled for the 16' long positive battery cable, but again, this was not done at the Fisher plant. I don't know about the body cover plates and the battery box holes but they must not have been done at Fisher (?). My factory 66 looks like the cover plates were sealed and painted with the rest of the body, so the assembly line may have used a Greenlee type punch to do the holes on the line, and drilled for the battery at the same time. I don't know if 67 was the same.
Last edited by Run to Rund; December 1st, 2011 at 08:50 AM.
December 1st, 2011, 08:58 AM
#60
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Like Kurt said, the cowl tag is body related for Fisher Body plant use. The front clip was added at the assembly liine after being painted separately (hence sometimes there was a slight paint mismatch between the fnders/hood and the rest of the body). The radiator core support was different on 66-7 W3-0s of course, since it was punched for the ducts. However, it was installed on the line so there was nothing for Fisher to do differently--just the 442 trim and floor shift hole/reinforcement (if used). Similarly, the 66-7 W30 frames were drilled for the 16' long positive battery cable, but again, this was not done at the Fisher plant. I don't know about the body cover plates and the battery box holes but they must not have been done at Fisher (?). My factory 66 looks like the cover plates were sealed and painted with the rest of the body, so the assembly line may have used a Greenlee type punch to do the holes on the line, and drilled for the battery at the same time. I don't know if 67 was the same.
December 1st, 2011, 09:30 AM
#61
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Location: Southern California
Posts: 14
1967 442s made in Lansing *and* Framingham will have the column 5 "V" to denote 442 body trim. This is proof positive.
Otherwise, there *are* other ways besides a build sheet. In addition to original paperwork (window sticker, invoice, bill of sale, etc.), the Protect-O-Plate will verify a 442 because it will contain a 442-only engine unit number.
Where do you go to get all of this information?
Wild About Cars. http://wildaboutcars.com
You'll find Chassis Service Manuals, Product Information Manuals (AKA Assembly Manuals), Inspector's Manuals, and other documents that will contain this and much much more.
Otherwise, there *are* other ways besides a build sheet. In addition to original paperwork (window sticker, invoice, bill of sale, etc.), the Protect-O-Plate will verify a 442 because it will contain a 442-only engine unit number.
Where do you go to get all of this information?
Wild About Cars. http://wildaboutcars.com
You'll find Chassis Service Manuals, Product Information Manuals (AKA Assembly Manuals), Inspector's Manuals, and other documents that will contain this and much much more.
Looking at a car that does have the boxed rear control arms, sway bar, and all badging (trunk, fenders, grille, dash). Engine is not original, however, so no help in ID'ing the car there.
Other codes listed on the cowl tag are: 988-B (yellow paint with black interior?), Y-2, 2XG, 4F, and 5J. Can anyone help out with these?
Thanks
December 1st, 2011, 11:18 AM
#62
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BTW, I like that color combo you have. Looks great!
Looking at a car that does have the boxed rear control arms, sway bar, and all badging (trunk, fenders, grille, dash). Engine is not original, however, so no help in ID'ing the car there.
Other codes listed on the cowl tag are: 988-B (yellow paint with black interior?), Y-2, 2XG, 4F, and 5J. Can anyone help out with these?
Thanks
Other codes listed on the cowl tag are: 988-B (yellow paint with black interior?), Y-2, 2XG, 4F, and 5J. Can anyone help out with these?
Thanks
Y Saffron
2 Black top
Column 2
X floor shift automatic
G console
Column 4
F Remote mirror
5 J center rear seatbelt
December 4th, 2011, 01:42 AM
#63
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 14
Interestingly, I don't have the remote mirror or center rear seatbelt...
Found the protect-o-plate--anything on there that the cowl tag wouldn't tell?
December 4th, 2011, 08:59 AM
#64
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December 4th, 2011, 06:02 PM
#65
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Lots, actually! Much more than that data tag. If you'll post or email me ( wmachne@shubes.net ) a scan or a legible pic, I'll run it down for you.
December 4th, 2011, 08:11 PM
#66
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Location: Southern California
Posts: 14
Ok, Protect-O-Plate says:
Left Collumn:
988-Y2
W533141
MM224N
Right Collumn:
338677M388556
OSC T
03100
Also stamped between the collums is 5-575, which I assume is the dealer code as it is also stamped on the previous page.
Thanks in advance!
Left Collumn:
988-Y2
W533141
MM224N
Right Collumn:
338677M388556
OSC T
03100
Also stamped between the collums is 5-575, which I assume is the dealer code as it is also stamped on the previous page.
Thanks in advance!
December 5th, 2011, 05:47 AM
#67
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Y2 - Saffron paint, black top
W533141 - Low compression 330 2-bbl. (Very unusual, are you sure there isn’t a “G” suffix there?)
MM224N - Jetaway trans and unit number
Right Collumn:
338677M388556 - VIN
OSC - Olds “O” rear end, 3.08 open
T - Built in June
0 – No cruise contol
3 - Power steering and brakes
1 - Deluxe radio (regular standard radio)
0 - No AC or HD cooling
0 - No electric windows
Correct. Zone 5 dealer code 575
September 28th, 2012, 11:16 PM
#69
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Sorry for digging up an almost year old thread, but .....
I'm trying to figure out a few codes & can't seem to find an answer & this looks to be the most recent '67 tag decode thread .....
'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M what are they??
& is 988-B really a black interior for saffron only - what's different about it? I thought 988-B was yellow buckets??
'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M what are they??
& is 988-B really a black interior for saffron only - what's different about it? I thought 988-B was yellow buckets??
September 29th, 2012, 05:32 AM
#71
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Location: Dover, Ohio
Posts: 1,204
I'm trying to figure out a few codes & can't seem to find an answer & this looks to be the most recent '67 tag decode thread .....
'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M what are they??
& is 988-B really a black interior for saffron only - what's different about it? I thought 988-B was yellow buckets??
'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M what are they??
& is 988-B really a black interior for saffron only - what's different about it? I thought 988-B was yellow buckets??
See wmachine - he can ID it all for you --
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post346874
September 29th, 2012, 05:38 AM
#72
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Youre only the second person I have known with a 67 with center rear seat belt.
My W-30 has Deluxe Center rear belts and the code is on line 5 as 5VJ -- its the "J" that is its belt code.
If your interior is black - it musta have been changed from saffron?? (if it has the saffron code)???
My W-30 has Deluxe Center rear belts and the code is on line 5 as 5VJ -- its the "J" that is its belt code.
If your interior is black - it musta have been changed from saffron?? (if it has the saffron code)???
September 29th, 2012, 07:15 PM
#73
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I'm trying to figure out a few codes & can't seem to find an answer & this looks to be the most recent '67 tag decode thread .....
'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M what are they??
& is 988-B really a black interior for saffron only - what's different about it? I thought 988-B was yellow buckets??
'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M what are they??
& is 988-B really a black interior for saffron only - what's different about it? I thought 988-B was yellow buckets??
988 is the black bench seat code for the Supreme convertible. Yellow interior was only available in the Cutlass Supreme Convertible in bucket seat form and was code 978.
'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M
Wow, you have some rare codes there! Okay, M is the the center back seat std belt code.
3U is a good one. Haven't seen that before. Not many column 3 codes show up.
4C should be B85 upper sill moldings
5H is another unknown. Possible belt related, shoulder belts?
Are these from a Supreme? Car still available to examine for answers?
October 1st, 2012, 05:39 AM
#77
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October 1st, 2012, 06:01 AM
#78
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I did find that I've seen 3U a few times before, but it has been inconclusive. Based on the window sticker, my guess (at this point) would be cruise control. We'll have to ask Harry if he remembers that being on the TPC. I don't know if there would be body mods required for that, but I think there may be firewall piercings.
October 1st, 2012, 12:23 PM
#79
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I had the column shift tilt column from the Turnpike for a while & I parted another Spanish Red 442 (338177M160610 - no tag info) that had cruise control, but don't think the TPC had a cruise control turn signal stalk.
Dan
Dan
October 1st, 2012, 12:31 PM
#80
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Dan, you're not helping much here......Think, man, think!!!!
