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Old August 3rd, 2011, 07:58 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by copper128 View Post
It was delivered on 1/14/67 at Bowen's Oldsmobile in Richmond, IN.
I have a Bowen Oldsmobile in Terre Haute IN too, dealer code 11-056
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 08:15 PM   #42
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...................Where do you go to get all of this information?
Wild About Cars. http://wildaboutcars.com
You'll find Chassis Service Manuals, Product Information Manuals (AKA Assembly Manuals), Inspector's Manuals, and other documents that will contain this and much much more.
Nice to see you back Kurt. Scot (GAOldsman) also referred me to the WAC site and I joined it too. Don't have anything in my garage yet. The WAC site has been very helpful looking up info I didn't have. I think it should be pointed out that it's not just for Olds, it's for car enthusiasts of all genre.
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 10:17 PM   #43
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I'm never sure of anything because someone seems to always call you out about it --
The comment below is general observation about most car based website, not specifically classicolds.com.

This is the reason so many posts go unanswered.. I have read some replies that one would think that the person was a rabid dog, rather than an other human being. We all make mistakes, but it seems that some members must boost their egos by viciously going after others. I have already learned in a short time on this website, who's posts I will not reply to, even if I have the correct information at hand. Life is too short to fight over who is right and wrong when it comes to car advise. People will thresh through the information and glean out the seeds from the chaff. Patience with others is a virtue.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 11:07 AM   #44
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The comment below is general observation about most car based website, not specifically classicolds.com.

This is the reason so many posts go unanswered.. I have read some replies that one would think that the person was a rabid dog, rather than an other human being. We all make mistakes, but it seems that some members must boost their egos by viciously going after others. I have already learned in a short time on this website, who's posts I will not reply to, even if I have the correct information at hand. Life is too short to fight over who is right and wrong when it comes to car advise. People will thresh through the information and glean out the seeds from the chaff. Patience with others is a virtue.
Well said.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 12:01 PM   #45
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Old August 5th, 2011, 07:25 AM   #46
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980 C is a black "custom sport front seat". StratoBench wasn't offered on the Cutlass in 67, only big cars. The custom sport front seat is a split bench with folding armrest. It was option code A65. A no cost option in place of the 442's standard Strato bucket seats
Here's my 67's trim tag:

Click the image to open in full size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldsmaniac View Post
A strato as found in the larger cars is a bench with bucket seat backs.
My bad. The correct term for the '67 A-body A65 bench seat is indeed the "Custom Sport" bench, which is what I meant to refer too.
In simple terms it means a "deluxe" bench seat as opposed to the standard bench. This "Custom Sport" term was a carry over from '66 and applied to both A and B bodies. But in '67, they introduced a "more deluxe" bench for the Delta Custom, so in addition to the Custom Sport bench (and the standard bench) there was the "Strato Bench".


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Man - yuse gots lotsa letters on that trim tag!! Ya know what they all mean? If not, our guru here Kurt (Wmachines) can tell ya all what each of those letters and numbers on each of the lines means!
Identifying a true factory 67 W 30 is an altogether different animal!!!
Column 1
W Tinted windshield
X Power Windows
F Power Seat
S Power Trunk

Column 2
E Air Conditioning
R Rear speaker

Column 3
Can't see it, but I'll bet it is "B" for the rear defogger

Column 5
V 442 trim
J *Deluxe* center rear seat belt

This last letter (J) is interesting in that the code for deluxe belts (front & rear) is Y. The lack of the Y here indicates that the J means that there are front & rear *and* center rear deluxe belts. So though I've not seen it, there must me another code for center rear *standard* belts.


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I'm never sure of anything because someone seems to always call you out about it -- but that being said ---- I believe that the special Type P cone-style posi rear came with the W-30 package -- 3.90 gears with the Automatic --- other ratios were no-cost option on the order. My recollection was that was the "standard" rear in the W cars?
I really dont recall seeing "anti-slip" as a cost option on the sticker?
If I tried, I could come up with the cost options on all that i remeber on the car and see how close I could come to the 3507.00 sticker price.
I'm sure W-Machine Kurt or Curt A. would know the answer for certain??
The G80 Anti-Spin was a requirement for the '66-'67 W30s and were spec'd as the P-type 10-bolt with the 4-pinion Anti-Spin carrier.
The would be a "required" option, not to be confused with an "included" option. This would show up on the window sticker with a price. Just like the L78 442 option shows up with a W30.
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Old August 5th, 2011, 08:17 AM   #47
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My bad. The correct term for the '67 A-body A65 bench seat is indeed the "Custom Sport" bench, which is what I meant to refer too.
In simple terms it means a "deluxe" bench seat as opposed to the standard bench. This "Custom Sport" term was a carry over from '66 and applied to both A and B bodies. But in '67, they introduced a "more deluxe" bench for the Delta Custom, so in addition to the Custom Sport bench (and the standard bench) there was the "Strato Bench".



Column 1
W Tinted windshield
X Power Windows
F Power Seat
S Power Trunk

Column 2
E Air Conditioning
R Rear speaker

Column 3
Can't see it, but I'll bet it is "B" for the rear defogger

Column 5
V 442 trim
J *Deluxe* center rear seat belt

This last letter (J) is interesting in that the code for deluxe belts (front & rear) is Y. The lack of the Y here indicates that the J means that there are front & rear *and* center rear deluxe belts. So though I've not seen it, there must me another code for center rear *standard* belts.




The G80 Anti-Spin was a requirement for the '66-'67 W30s and were spec'd as the P-type 10-bolt with the 4-pinion Anti-Spin carrier.
The would be a "required" option, not to be confused with an "included" option. This would show up on the window sticker with a price. Just like the L78 442 option shows up with a W30.
I'm a beeliever!! Thanks Kurt. As you may recall my NH W30 car has the "J" seatbelt code too!! and are deluxe too. Maybe if you wanted to select center rear belt -- they only came as deluxe - so it would be impossible to get a center rear belt with non-deluxe buckels?
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Old August 5th, 2011, 09:33 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Chesrown 67 OAI View Post
Maybe if you wanted to select center rear belt -- they only came as deluxe - so it would be impossible to get a center rear belt with non-deluxe buckels?
According to ordering info, both were available. Which simply means that a center rear belt in standard form would be an accessory code other than J.
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Old August 5th, 2011, 09:35 AM   #49
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Thanks for the great decode info Kurt.

Interesting that Olds spec'd the P axle for W30 and manual trans cars. I always thought the O axle to be the stronger of the two, but apparently Olds engineering didn't think so. At least until the 31-spline version was in production. Any light to shed on that?
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Old August 5th, 2011, 10:58 AM   #50
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Thanks for the great decode info Kurt.

Interesting that Olds spec'd the P axle for W30 and manual trans cars. I always thought the O axle to be the stronger of the two, but apparently Olds engineering didn't think so. At least until the 31-spline version was in production. Any light to shed on that?
Yes, and that's a good question. Took a lot of research to get the answer too. Here's the short answer:
The O-type *was*originally slated for use in the '67 W30s, as late as Dec '66. But earlier tests found them "shucking the teeth" of the ring gears in hard launches using steep (like 4.33) gears. Since Olds was not (yet) making the steep gears, they were using Chebby gears that were not designed for the weight and torque of the Oldsmobiles. So with no quick fix available, Olds went back to the P-type for their run of '67 W30s in the early spring of '67.
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Old August 7th, 2011, 07:34 AM   #51
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decode

Quote:
I'd like to see that "loaded" tag decoded too!
Thanks Kurt.
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Old August 7th, 2011, 09:47 AM   #52
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Kurt, iirc, that response is a quote from a magazine, and I think it is only partially correct. Checking the parts books, Olds didn't have the performance ratios for the O diff. ready in time, and perhaps some of the GM diffs they tried weren't strong enough. Which ones, I don't know for sure. The P 10 bolt wasn't very strong either. I think the biggest reason for continuing with the P rear is that the ratios Olds wanted were available. I wish they had "borrowed" Chevelle 12 bolts before the 68 model year/Canadian built cars, lol.
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Old August 7th, 2011, 06:20 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Run to Rund View Post
Kurt, iirc, that response is a quote from a magazine, and I think it is only partially correct. Checking the parts books, Olds didn't have the performance ratios for the O diff. ready in time, and perhaps some of the GM diffs they tried weren't strong enough. Which ones, I don't know for sure. The P 10 bolt wasn't very strong either. I think the biggest reason for continuing with the P rear is that the ratios Olds wanted were available. I wish they had "borrowed" Chevelle 12 bolts before the 68 model year/Canadian built cars, lol.

You're quite right, Joe that article was from the April '67 Hot Rod.
But there were others like Bob Handran (still has the '67 W30 he bought new) who had similar experiences with the early O types with steep gears. Granted, the Cheby 12 bolts would have been a stronger choice. I don't believe it had anything to do with NHRA and "stock" classification, because the P-type was Pontiac anyway. I suspect that resistance from Chebby was a factor, because they were reluctant to give *anything* up, especially something that would compete against them on the drag strip.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 06:04 AM   #54
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In 67 all 442s were based on the Cutlass, not the F85, so the VIN begins with 338077, 338177, or 338677 with the first 3 being Olds, the last 7 being for 1967. 3807 was the Sports Coupe (2 door sedan), 3817 was Holiday Coupe (2 door hardtop), and 3867 the convertible. The 5V on the Lansing 442 cowl tags was discussed above. Any other parts like the engine could have been swapped years ago. The original engine was a 400 (390925E next to the oil filler) and the rear lower control arms were boxed with a sway bar between them. The original 442 hood was louvered, a 442-only part.
Did you mean the 3867 on the cowl tag for the convertible means a factory 442 or is for all '67 Cutlasses and Cutlass/442 convertibles?

Thanks
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Old December 1st, 2011, 06:26 AM   #55
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Did you mean the 3867 on the cowl tag for the convertible means a factory 442 or is for all '67 Cutlasses and Cutlass/442 convertibles?

Thanks
The 3867 means that it is specifically a "Cutlass Supreme Convertible" model. In '67, the 442 was an option and has nothing to do with the model identification.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 07:27 AM   #56
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They somehow didnt see fit to ID the W30 either in the VIN or on the cowl tag but they DID make sure they included a tag code for my Center rear seat belt AND my Power Rear Antenna!!! Boy, are we sure ever thankful for that !! Whew!!!! Dont know how we would have survived without that info!!! Naaa! Nobody would have ever had any reason to easily identify a factory 442 with a factory installed W30 option package! Yeah- right? Go figger! LOL
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:20 AM   #57
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They somehow didnt see fit to ID the W30 either in the VIN or on the cowl tag but they DID make sure they included a tag code for my Center rear seat belt AND my Power Rear Antenna!!! Boy, are we sure ever thankful for that !! Whew!!!! Dont know how we would have survived without that info!!! Naaa! Nobody would have ever had any reason to easily identify a factory 442 with a factory installed W30 option package! Yeah- right? Go figger! LOL
Tweed, do keep in mind what the body tag is. It was *not*put there to refer to 40 years later to identify how the car was originally made. You know you are supposed to *keep receipts* for that reason!!
The body tag only had body related info on them. The accessory codes were only identifying modifications (piercings, brackets, etc.) needed to the body for the options that need them. And plants other than Lansing and Framingham didn't even have those codes. In light of that, we're lucky to have what info is there to begin with!
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:36 AM   #58
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Tweed, do keep in mind what the body tag is. It was *not*put there to refer to 40 years later to identify how the car was originally made. You know you are supposed to *keep receipts* for that reason!!
The body tag only had body related info on them. The accessory codes were only identifying modifications (piercings, brackets, etc.) needed to the body for the options that need them. And plants other than Lansing and Framingham didn't even have those codes. In light of that, we're lucky to have what info is there to begin with!
LOL Kurt! I would have been TOTALLY surprized if you didnt REMIND me of that REAL intended purpose/usage of the Cowl tag!! But didnt GM do it with some of their cars? Z28 Camaros - for example?
My argument in defense/support of that rationale is why wasnt there a code put somewhere for the "punched" holes for battery in trunk vent if they made a code for punched hole in rear fender for rear antenna? There could haven been a code put somewhere for the punched core support or the puched holes in the frame?? All we know is that it NEVER happened! UGH!!
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:47 AM   #59
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Like Kurt said, the cowl tag is body related for Fisher Body plant use. The front clip was added at the assembly liine after being painted separately (hence sometimes there was a slight paint mismatch between the fnders/hood and the rest of the body). The radiator core support was different on 66-7 W3-0s of course, since it was punched for the ducts. However, it was installed on the line so there was nothing for Fisher to do differently--just the 442 trim and floor shift hole/reinforcement (if used). Similarly, the 66-7 W30 frames were drilled for the 16' long positive battery cable, but again, this was not done at the Fisher plant. I don't know about the body cover plates and the battery box holes but they must not have been done at Fisher (?). My factory 66 looks like the cover plates were sealed and painted with the rest of the body, so the assembly line may have used a Greenlee type punch to do the holes on the line, and drilled for the battery at the same time. I don't know if 67 was the same.

Last edited by Run to Rund; December 1st, 2011 at 09:50 AM.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:58 AM   #60
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Like Kurt said, the cowl tag is body related for Fisher Body plant use. The front clip was added at the assembly liine after being painted separately (hence sometimes there was a slight paint mismatch between the fnders/hood and the rest of the body). The radiator core support was different on 66-7 W3-0s of course, since it was punched for the ducts. However, it was installed on the line so there was nothing for Fisher to do differently--just the 442 trim and floor shift hole/reinforcement (if used). Similarly, the 66-7 W30 frames were drilled for the 16' long positive battery cable, but again, this was not done at the Fisher plant. I don't know about the body cover plates and the battery box holes but they must not have been done at Fisher (?). My factory 66 looks like the cover plates were sealed and painted with the rest of the body, so the assembly line may have used a Greenlee type punch to do the holes on the line, and drilled for the battery at the same time. I don't know if 67 was the same.
Your right in that the batty cables passed through the hole plugs so there wouldnt have been need for a code for that. However the VENT tube hole WAS punched in the body, hence my argument for a code for that!! But, the true answer to that is that the body plant didnt make that mod. Those W30 mods were done "after the fact" wherever the did do the package installation - be it in-house somewhere or at a shop like Demmer? Any it all makes for good conversation on a rainy cold ohio day!!!
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Old December 1st, 2011, 10:30 AM   #61
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1967 442s made in Lansing *and* Framingham will have the column 5 "V" to denote 442 body trim. This is proof positive.
Otherwise, there *are* other ways besides a build sheet. In addition to original paperwork (window sticker, invoice, bill of sale, etc.), the Protect-O-Plate will verify a 442 because it will contain a 442-only engine unit number.

Where do you go to get all of this information?
Wild About Cars. http://wildaboutcars.com
You'll find Chassis Service Manuals, Product Information Manuals (AKA Assembly Manuals), Inspector's Manuals, and other documents that will contain this and much much more.
It is 100% certain that no Lansing 33867 442s left the factory without the "5V"?

Looking at a car that does have the boxed rear control arms, sway bar, and all badging (trunk, fenders, grille, dash). Engine is not original, however, so no help in ID'ing the car there.

Other codes listed on the cowl tag are: 988-B (yellow paint with black interior?), Y-2, 2XG, 4F, and 5J. Can anyone help out with these?

Thanks
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Old December 1st, 2011, 12:18 PM   #62
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It is 100% certain that no Lansing 33867 442s left the factory without the "5V"?
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
BTW, I like that color combo you have. Looks great!


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Originally Posted by Gene442 View Post
Looking at a car that does have the boxed rear control arms, sway bar, and all badging (trunk, fenders, grille, dash). Engine is not original, however, so no help in ID'ing the car there.

Other codes listed on the cowl tag are: 988-B (yellow paint with black interior?), Y-2, 2XG, 4F, and 5J. Can anyone help out with these?

Thanks
But I see you have a Cutlass, not a 442 hood.
Y Saffron
2 Black top
Column 2
X floor shift automatic
G console
Column 4
F Remote mirror
5 J center rear seatbelt
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Old December 4th, 2011, 02:42 AM   #63
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Yeah, that's pretty much it.
BTW, I like that color combo you have. Looks great!



But I see you have a Cutlass, not a 442 hood.
Y Saffron
2 Black top
Column 2
X floor shift automatic
G console
Column 4
F Remote mirror
5 J center rear seatbelt
Thanks wm, I appreciate your help and the nod on the color combo

Interestingly, I don't have the remote mirror or center rear seatbelt...

Found the protect-o-plate--anything on there that the cowl tag wouldn't tell?
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Old December 4th, 2011, 09:59 AM   #64
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Thanks wm, I appreciate your help and the nod on the color combo

Interestingly, I don't have the remote mirror or center rear seatbelt...

Found the protect-o-plate--anything on there that the cowl tag wouldn't tell?
Lots, actually! Much more than that data tag. If you'll post or email me ( wmachne@shubes.net ) a scan or a legible pic, I'll run it down for you.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 07:02 PM   #65
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Lots, actually! Much more than that data tag. If you'll post or email me ( wmachne@shubes.net ) a scan or a legible pic, I'll run it down for you.
Great, thanks! I'll post when I get a scan. Is there any reason not to post it? Will identity thieves apply for credit cards in my car's name and wreck her credit?
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Old December 4th, 2011, 09:11 PM   #66
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Ok, Protect-O-Plate says:

Left Collumn:
988-Y2
W533141
MM224N

Right Collumn:
338677M388556
OSC T
03100

Also stamped between the collums is 5-575, which I assume is the dealer code as it is also stamped on the previous page.

Thanks in advance!
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Old December 5th, 2011, 06:47 AM   #67
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Ok, Protect-O-Plate says:

Left Collumn:
988-Y2
W533141
MM224N

Right Collumn:
338677M388556
OSC T
03100
988- Black bucket seat interior (one that is specific with Saffron paint)
Y2 - Saffron paint, black top
W533141 - Low compression 330 2-bbl. (Very unusual, are you sure there isnt a G suffix there?)
MM224N - Jetaway trans and unit number

Right Collumn:
338677M388556 - VIN
OSC - Olds O rear end, 3.08 open

T - Built in June

0 No cruise contol
3 - Power steering and brakes
1 - Deluxe radio (regular standard radio)
0 - No AC or HD cooling
0 - No electric windows

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Also stamped between the collums is 5-575, which I assume is the dealer code as it is also stamped on the previous page.
Correct. Zone 5 dealer code 575
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Old December 5th, 2011, 06:56 PM   #68
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Thanks! You're the man.

I'll double-check for that "G" engine suffix.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 12:16 AM   #69
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Sorry for digging up an almost year old thread, but .....

I'm trying to figure out a few codes & can't seem to find an answer & this looks to be the most recent '67 tag decode thread .....

'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M what are they??

& is 988-B really a black interior for saffron only - what's different about it? I thought 988-B was yellow buckets??
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Old September 29th, 2012, 04:13 AM   #70
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Found the 5M - it's the center rear seat belt with STANDARD belts.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 06:32 AM   #71
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I'm trying to figure out a few codes & can't seem to find an answer & this looks to be the most recent '67 tag decode thread .....

'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M what are they??

& is 988-B really a black interior for saffron only - what's different about it? I thought 988-B was yellow buckets??

See wmachine - he can ID it all for you --

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...tml#post346874
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Old September 29th, 2012, 06:38 AM   #72
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Found the 5M - it's the center rear seat belt with STANDARD belts.
Youre only the second person I have known with a 67 with center rear seat belt.
My W-30 has Deluxe Center rear belts and the code is on line 5 as 5VJ -- its the "J" that is its belt code.

If your interior is black - it musta have been changed from saffron?? (if it has the saffron code)???
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Old September 29th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #73
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I'm trying to figure out a few codes & can't seem to find an answer & this looks to be the most recent '67 tag decode thread .....

'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M what are they??

& is 988-B really a black interior for saffron only - what's different about it? I thought 988-B was yellow buckets??
Let me straighten us both out:
988 is the black bench seat code for the Supreme convertible. Yellow interior was only available in the Cutlass Supreme Convertible in bucket seat form and was code 978.

'67 Lansing tag codes: 3U 4C 5H & 5M
Wow, you have some rare codes there! Okay, M is the the center back seat std belt code.
3U is a good one. Haven't seen that before. Not many column 3 codes show up.
4C should be B85 upper sill moldings
5H is another unknown. Possible belt related, shoulder belts?
Are these from a Supreme? Car still available to examine for answers?
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Old October 1st, 2012, 03:53 AM   #74
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Here's one example of "3U" ------ NOT MINE!!
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Old October 1st, 2012, 04:03 AM   #75
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The red on red Turnpike Cruiser Harry parted
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Old October 1st, 2012, 04:09 AM   #76
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& a 442 convertible
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Old October 1st, 2012, 06:39 AM   #77
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The red on red Turnpike Cruiser Harry parted
Not that it means anything to this "3U" discussion, but the tag shown here shows paint codes R(Spanish Red) - 2 (black vinyl top)
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Old October 1st, 2012, 07:01 AM   #78
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Here's one example of "3U" ------ NOT MINE!!
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The red on red Turnpike Cruiser Harry parted
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& a 442 convertible
I did find that I've seen 3U a few times before, but it has been inconclusive. Based on the window sticker, my guess (at this point) would be cruise control. We'll have to ask Harry if he remembers that being on the TPC. I don't know if there would be body mods required for that, but I think there may be firewall piercings.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 01:23 PM   #79
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I had the column shift tilt column from the Turnpike for a while & I parted another Spanish Red 442 (338177M160610 - no tag info) that had cruise control, but don't think the TPC had a cruise control turn signal stalk.

Dan
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Old October 1st, 2012, 01:31 PM   #80
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I had the column shift tilt column from the Turnpike for a while & I parted another Spanish Red 442 (338177M160610 - no tag info) that had cruise control, but don't think the TPC had a cruise control turn signal stalk.

Dan
Dan, you're not helping much here......Think, man, think!!!!
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Old October 1st, 2012, 01:31 PM
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