Bryan Burch

I called ICBC this AM. They state there is a way but he must do it. Just sent Mr. Harrett this:

Mike77

ICBC agent told me there is a form on their website that can be filled out to acquire a replacement reg.
The thing I don't understand , and hopefully I will learn something here, how does an American purchase a Canadian reg. car, import to USA as a Car dealer, then need to go back to Canadian government to prove ownership. During the importation process are new USA ownership document not created? If those were lost would the DMV of Washington state not have copies of the USA ownership papers?
I guess I will find out.

Olds442redberet

I was wondering the same thing.

Here in Alabama we just act like we just pulled the car out of a barn or field where it's been sitting abandoned for decades and register it.

Bryan Burch

US Customs website:

For CBP clearance you will need the shipper's or carrier's original bill of lading, the bill of sale, foreign registration.

He did not title it in Washington state, no legal requirement to do so.

RROLDSX

He sounds like a flipper and didn't want to cut into his profit by have to pay taxes. Someone will end up paying the sales tax somewhere. It might cost you but you should be able to get registration. Good luck.

VI Cutty

I wouldn't think so. Customs is a federal agency while vehicle registration/ownership documentation is a state/provincial thing. In my (limited) experience, when bringing a car north to BC you get importation documents which just record VIN, owner and taxes/tariffs paid. You still need to register the car with ICBC which would generate your registration papers.

Mike77

Any luck on getting your registration papers?

Bryan Burch

No, not yet. Frustrated.

Gary M

If that auction house is selling cars that are not legit maybe it's time they got some pressure to make it right. Start out by telling them you would like them to help you with the purchase they brokered and depending on their response time if necessary ask them if they regularly sell cars that they have not verified the seller owns. If the seller fraudulently sold through them they should be accountable. Be confident but stay positive and document by using emails for your correspondence with them. Online auctions say as is but I bet that doesn't make them immune from selling cars with no title.

Bryan Burch

Here's what I know: the auction house had either purchased or consigned the car. Then they auctioned it and sold it to Mr. Harrett in Washington, who hired a broker/transport (JR Huls) to get it through US Customs. The car sat around his shop for almost a year, and then I bought it through his ebay listing in early December. Sometime in the year at his shop in WA, he loses the Canadian registration, but still lists it, stating he has the registration. So I win the auction, wire the funds, he sends "title paperwork" which consists of two of the three things I need for registration in Oklahoma, the bill of sale from him and the customs clearance form. What's missing is the Canadian registration. So I call the guy he bought it from, John Mackee and talk to him. John Mackee said that Peter Harrett had called him 4 days earlier telling him that he lost the registration. Fast forward a few weeks, I call ICBC and they tell me to have Mr. Harrett call Autoplan Sales. I give him the numbers, and he tells me he called them. He said the ICBC told him to work with Mr. Mackee to get the registration. He said he emailed them and will keep me informed.

Here's the thing--I'm dying for a 1969 442--I've had a love affair with these cars since my first one in HS. But this car is really misrepresented from how it was listed. I find the 11k I paid for it to be a bit on the high side considering the condition. Nothing in that ebay listing is true, unless you consider items of "new" condition to be circa 2008ish. So it's a big effing project, and I kind of feel burned. So ebay says I can file a claim if he isn't able to produce the documents (registration or title) that I need to title in Oklahoma. I'm going to give him time and rope but only enough to hang himself. I have 90 days to make the claim.

What would you do?

Gary M

Misrepresented, no title, a clear case of fraud. The car you seek is in America and will come to you sooner or later. You have rights available to you. Use them and let the seller pay to retrieve his merchandise. This is not your burden. You purchased a misrepresented car with no title. You have a resonance expectation that a auction house will do their due diligence to assure they are not selling possibly stollen property.

BangScreech4-4-2

Gary's right. Lots of '69 4-4-2s out there. No need to get stuck with a pig in a poke. File your claim now!

Mike77

I still don't understand how a guy in Canada has the paper work to prove a guy in USA owns a car he sold. If the car is still registered in Mr.MacKee's name then he still owns it.
I think you need to file a claim with E-bay, send the car back and look for one with a legit title.

Olds442redberet

No brainer, file a claim and get your money back..

abodyman

I don't know how EBay handles these situations and/or claims, but I'd go ahead with a claim asap. If the seller is legit & doesn't want to "in-do" the sale, he'll get going & get the paperwork done for you. Obviously the seller needs to be "motivated" to fix this for you...

Gary M

Can you contact PayPal or your bank asap to stop the payment maybe reverse it till resolved? Him not having the money will keep him motivated.

Bryan Burch

UPDATE 1/10/2016:

Mr. Harrett has been working with Mr. Mackee and ICBC to get the replacement registration. I'm not confident they will be successful, but I talked to ebay and I have time to file (must file before March 9th), so I'll give them a bit of time.

It's hard to be patient. It's just sitting in my garage, wanting me to dig in.

Olds442redberet

I've learnt the hard way that it is much easier to motivate someone with action than it is with patience. File the claim. Get your money back. People with no incentive tend to be easy going. But I bet if you have his car and your money he'd be getting things done ASAP.

And this will stop him from selling to others as well. No need for others to go through what you're going through.

I still have not received my promised title from my most recent eBay purchase either. But I can work around that. I don't need a title here in Alabama,

I truly hope you can resolve this issue. Good Luck.

oldsmobiledave

If you want Mr. Mackee's email & personal cell phone number they are readily available.

droptopron

I agree. File the claim and use it as leverage with the guy. Tell him you still want the car but you need to cover yourself. If he has an avenue to get the paperwork in order that will get him moving. If he comes up with the doc you can cancel the claim.
As far as the condition, caveat emptor. All in, going by the pics listed & the problems you mentioned you didn't do too bad. You got what you paid for more or less.

Bryan Burch

Thanks. I have it and have spoke to him.

Bryan Burch

EDIT: Claim filed with ebay.

EDIT2: You are right. Condition is my problem.

Bryan Burch

Got a text last night that the canadian registration is being mailed to me. I'll keep you posted.

droptopron

God willing it comes through. Hopefully you can put this behind you & get to enjoying the car. I had a similar problem with a '79 TA I bought from Boston. It took months to get the right paperwork in place. When the guy finally had the docs in order he sent them regular mail& they got lost. Took 21 days from Boston to NY but they finally made it to me.

Bryan Burch

Wow, so you know how much this uncertainty stinks. I want to thank all of you for your thoughts, and even efforts to get me on the right track. I do want this car, and I can't wait to dig in.

I'll keep you all posted when things get resolved.

Olds442redberet

As a dealer, which his website leads me to believe he is, Peter Harrett could have some serious issues for selling the car without the proper documentation. The State Attorney's office might be a good next step. Dealers do not want the state's attention. They are almost never completely within compliance. His dealer licence could be in jeopardy.

I know this one really well. I went through the same issue with a BMW convertible I bought. The dealer couldn't find the title. He was relaxed until I told him what route I was going to take. Then he found the title real fast.
I also sold cars last year at a small dealership so I could learn a few things before getting further into this car flipping thing. What you and I can get away with when selling a used car the dealers can't. They will get crushed by the regulators.

Bryan Burch

UPDATE 1/28/2017: Canadian registration arrived in the mail yesterday, with a note that it cost him $200 to obtain. Boo hoo. Should have had that before he sold it. Took it to the tag agent here and they made copies of everything and I should be titled and tagged this Tuesday. Thank you all for your advice! I can't wait to dig in!

Gary M

Time to enjoy. Post some pictures of the car as it looks now.

VI Cutty

Glad to hear it worked out, Bryan! Hope you enjoy the car now.

Mike77

Hard to believe an $18.00 CDN registration paper cost him $200.00 USD. Good to hear things are moving along.

RROLDSX

He likely spent the remaining $182 on having to pay tax on his original purchase that he never registered. Obviously ( or hopefully in your case) he lied about the car's value in order to minimize the tax he had to pay in Ryder to register it.

Bryan Burch

Yeah not sure what that 200 was for. His problem.