Fummins

Hey Guys, im on the road currently and ran across what is being represented as a 1974 442 can anyone decode the VIN# for me? TIA!
VIN# 3g87m2m243370

rcorrigan5

Can't really verify from the VIN, but here is what your VIN says:


3 G87 M 2 M 243370


3 = GM division = Oldsmobile
G87 = model series and body type = Cutlass S hardtop coupe
M = engine = 350ci, 4bbl carb with dual exhaust (L34)
2 = model year = 1972
M = assembly plant = Lansing MI
243770 = assembly plant sequential number


There should be a trim tag under the hood with more info on it. I don't know if it will say if you have a real 4-4-2 or not, but take a picture of the trim tag and post it with this thread. Folks here will be able to tell you what the trim tag says as well.


Randy C.

Fummins

Thanks Randy, the 1974 in my op should say 1972...I will see if i can get a trim tag pic.

joe_padavano

1971 was the last year that the 442 was a separate model with a unique VIN. Starting with the 1972 model year, the 442 was demoted to a "handling and appearance" option. Nothing in your VIN will prove or disprove that the car came from the factory with the 442 option. The cowl tag unfortunately won't tell you anything either. Only the build sheet will tell you that.

This is unfortunately why it seems like nearly every 1972 Cutlass has been turned into a Faux Four Two.

Fummins

Thanks Joe, that is great info to know. I knew the '72's were less desireable due to the declining HP numbers, but didnt know the 442/s were only trim and handling option only offering...good to know.
This particular car is a beautiful survivor with bucket seats and a console shifter, a newly rebuilt 350 to factory specs as well. I was looking for a nice driver and it caught my eye. It sounds like this car is only worth what a nice Cutlass would be as the 442 option cant be proven, and no real premium can be assigned to it?

Fun71

Well that's kind of a disappointment. It could have been built with some actual horsepower without going wild.

Octania

" It sounds like this car is only worth what a nice Cutlass would be as the 442 option can't be proven, and therefore no real premium can be assigned to it?"
===

That sounds about right. Unless it has a broadcast sheet or some sort of documentation.

Fummins

The '72 442 with 350/4bbl only made 180 HP right? He is looking for any addl documentation....

rcorrigan5

Beings it's a Lansing car, it's highly unlikely there is a build sheet anywhere on the car. If the owner has original purchase papers when the car was new, or anything like that, it would help.


Randy C.

joe_padavano

Actually, the VIN M 350 4bbl with dual exhaust was rated at 200 HP. The VIN K 350 4bbl single exhaust was 180 HP.

And people crap on the 307 motors...

Keep in mind that we're talking NET HP, not gross HP as was used in prior years. You can't really compare the two.

Fummins

So at the wheel HP rating right? Here isw the cowl tag, its hard to make out...

joe_padavano

No. SAE net is at the flywheel with all accessories, exhaust manifolds, air cleaner, etc, as installed in the car. Prior years used gross HP with open air cleaner, free flowing dyno exhaust, no accessories, etc. Neither is a rear wheel rating.

47 Convertible

__________________________________________________ __

Back in the days when that change was 'new' the popular algorithm to calculate how net compared to gross was to add 20% to net to see what it would have been in gross hp of earlier years. So, very roughly estimated, 200 hp net would be the equivalent of 240 hp gross. Still puny but to meet pollution requirements compression was dropped and timing was changed and exhaust gasses recirculated and air injected into exhaust and catalytic converters required etc. None of which helped performance. Those were dark days in terms of performance. But how things have changed now where hp is back up and can be bought from the dealer in a new car. Just wish Olds was still around. Sigh.
Jerry

joe_padavano

Can't say that I've heard of an algorithm before, but in 1971, which was the first year for SAE Net ratings, Olds actually published both the gross and net HP and torque numbers. The 1972 motors are nearly identical to the 1971 motors, so that's an easy comparison. In this case, the L74 4bbl motor with dual exhaust was 200 HP at 4400 RPM net and 260 HP at 4600 RPM gross. Note that the gross number doesn't differentiate single vs dual exhaust, which should tell you something about the validity (or lack thereof) of that number.

BlackGold

And I wouldn't make fun of a 200 HP (net) Olds engine from '71-72 timeframe unless you've actually driven one (tuned right). I'll take any day a 200 HP Olds engine with a broad torque curve over a peaky 250 HP modern engine that doesn't even pick up until you're approaching 4000 rpm.