2blu442

Hi all
I recently offered up a 1965 4 speed frame for sale, which is the same frame as used under 442's in 1965. The site 442.bro has a really good section keying out the frame used with 4 speeds & 442's. Well, this led to another member and I wondering what was used in 1964. Years ago I drug home a project car that I've not had time to work on yet, but it is a factory 4 speed Cutlass. I crawled under it an found the same frame characteristic that the 1965 4 spd & 442 frames have. This makes sense, that the mid-year 442 option would have whatever frame was used under a 4 speed Cutlass. But... could any 1964 guru's verify that the code stamped in this frame is the same code used by the 442? The numbers are stamped upside down, first line 3837595 S in a circle, 26 then the next line 4-13-64- 2-6 Is the 4-13-64 the build date?
John

DSCN5475.jpg

oldstata

John, this is CRH 64 442 frame code
Found on the w29 board
A05E7A8F-AF14-4C6C-893D-F8FEF5EB2975_1.jpg

Keener

Hey John, glad you still have the 64 4-speed. Yes, the frame number for the non-442 in 64 is the same as the 442. The 4-13-64 is the build date of the frame. Based on that frame date, my guess is your data plate has a production date of late April or May of 1964.

2blu442

Here's the trim tag
P1010140.jpg

I'm still collecting parts for the car and will not clone it as a 442. But I didn't realize how easy it would be to make it into a clone... and how hard it would be to prove without the POP. John

Keener

Looking more closely, I notice that your frame has a "2-S" stamp rather than "N-1" like CRH's 64 442 frame. Of note, my Fremont built 64 442 frame is dated 4-3-64 and has the "N-1" like CRHs frame; not sure if this is meaningful or irrelevant. Could the "N-1" designate 442 frame. It would be nice to hear from other 64 4-speed owners. Btw, your car was built last week of April, while mine was built third week of April. Strange that our cars, if the frames are the same between 442 and non-442, would not have the same production date and codes.

2blu442

That's interesting, our cars were built a week apart but have a different code on the frame. That might be the key to verifying if a 1964 442 is real or not. It would be interesting to see the codes on more 1964 4 speed cars, both 442 and plane jane Cutlass.

Keener

My 64 cutlass with automatic, Fremont car, has frame number 9773004 followed by PON, below the PON is number 2; build date 6-15-64

Keener

Does anyone have a Hollander interchange book? If so, please post the page for 1964-65 f85.

The top line of characters on the frame denote the part assembly number and the "circled S" is the frame manufacturer (A.O. Smith). Other manufacturers could be Pontiac and maybe Parish. The bottom line of characters in the above photos gives the date of manufacture, shift number (the 2 on your frame means second shift, while mine has a 1 for first shift). The meaning of the "S" on your frame John and the "N"on mine and CRH's frame is unknown but could reference a particular plant assembly station, an assembly line, or particular frame for vehicle models.

Keener

Update on my 64 cutlass hardtop Fremont car . The parts catalog lists the frame (9773004), built by Pontiac, as being used for the 1964 Chevelle station wagon

Keener

Have another update: I heard from a 64 442 owner. His car was built in Lansing. His frame number is 3837595 followed by a circled "S"-27; rather than N-1 (mentioned above for the 64 442 Fremont cars) his car has an N-2. This reflects his car was built second shift, rather than first shift; but I still cannot explain the "N"....could it be a certain A.O. Smith assembly plant or special assembly line that added additional features or welds to the 442 frame? It would be great to hear from 64 442 owners and cutlass 4spd/3spd owners to learn what numbers they have on there frames. All should have 3837595, but I'm curious whether they have N-1/N-2 or S-1/S-2 (reversed 1-S or 2-S as seen with John's non-442 4spd cutlass in the pic above)

Asusport

Mine is a 442 that was parked in 1982. Has the "S 2"

hurst68olds

HOLLANDER 35th Edition 1969
FRAME
OLDSMOBILE F85
'64-'65
skyroof S.W. - 1230
Conv. - 1392
Others - 1391

1230. 382620
Buick Special '64-'65 skyroof S.W.
Olds F85 '64-'65 skyroof S.W.

1391. 3876903
Olds F85 '64-'65 exc. Conv. & skyroof S.W.

1392. 9777400
Olds F85 '64-'65 Conv.

that's all it lists/shows

Keener

Interesting that my 64 holiday coupe has a Pontiac frame. Thanks for posting the information. Could you also post the Pontiac frames for 64? I wonder if they had some Pontiac frames left on the line when they switched to Oldsmobile production or they just interchanged frames of the same length without regard for GM division in the assembly line that day.

66-3X2 442

Anything was possible in a GM BOP plant. There are some differences I've noticed on the 66 A-Body cars.

hurst68olds

HOLLANDER 35th Edition 1969
FRAME
TEMPEST (Includes GTO)
'64-'66
Conv. - 1201
4 Dr.H.T. ('66) - 1204
Others - 1248

1201. 9783404
Buick Special '64-'66 Conv.
Buick Special '65-'66 Gran Sport
Tempest '64-'66 Conv.

1204. 9784511
Buick Special '66 4 Dr.H.T.
Tempest '66 4 Dr.H.T.

1248. 9783502
Tempest '64-'65 exc. Conv.
Tempest '66 exc. Conv. & 4 Dr.H.T.

Lefty64

Hi Guys, Strange, this thread jumps from Feb 2016 to Feb 2017. My post from last fall is gone. I've got a '64 442 with frame number 3837595 -Os (circle S) 26 3-30-64 N-1