Mucle NUTZ

How rare is my car?
I have a 1967 F85 2 door post hardtop with a straight 6, 3 speed on the tree and 12 bolt open rear. Any info would be great.
Thanks. Rob

gearheads78

I don't get in to the rare or not rare but rare does not mean desireable. Sound like a great car to build a nostalgic race car to me. Post up some pics.

citcapp

That was the entry level Olds f85. That I do know. I don't think it was rare. Others who know more than I do will chime in shortly. The Post Coup is a great body style work with though to do as Richard suggests a nostalgic
race car.

Post some pictures

wmachine

I'd say that's pretty rare. I have some production figures for '67 and can probably back into some figures of how many. But not will all those options, or lack of. I've yet to find an Olds with *no* options, but what you've described in on the right track. Please post a pic of the data plate and let's take a closer look!

wmachine

Come on guys, give Rob a break here. He didn't mention desirability or what *else* he should do with it. There is more to the collector car world that dollar value and desirability. We all can identify wanting to have something different, and I for one do appreciate cars that are off the beaten path. I think it is a bit early to suggest what he should do with the car, especially since he didn't even ask!

jaunty75

First, it can't be a "post hardtop" as those are opposite things. It's either a post car, meaning it has a B-pillar, or it lacks such a pillar and is therefor a hardtop.

Setting the Pace lists the production of the 1967 F-85 6-cylinder Club Coupe, which is what you have as the only other F-85 styles available were a 4-door sedan or 2-seat station wagon, at 5,349. That's more than double the production of the sedans, which was 2,458.

Overall, production of the F-85, 6 or 8-cylinder version, was much smaller than that of the various flavors of Cutlass (Six, V8, and Supreme). For 1967, total non-station wagon F-85 production was about 18,000. Total non-station wagon Cutlass production was more than 10 times more at about 185,000.

This source doesn't break down production by transmission or differential type.

Mucle NUTZ

Pictures are posted... Thanks for the comments and info. I'm still trying to find out how many of these are out there. I don't remember seeing any of these with three on the tree. Has anyone else?
Thanks
Rob

jaunty75

That information doesn't exist anywhere. No one tracks when any car disappears from the roads for whatever reason and maintains a central database about it somewhere.

Think about it? How could any one source keep track every time a car anywhere in the country or in the world over all the years after the car was first produced is in a wreck and junked or just retired from old age and crushed? You can't. You can only go by statistics and a little judgement.

About 1% of a typical car's original production is still on the road after 25 years according to government websites. It levels off after that because of collector interest or for whatever reason. Add a bit if the car was more desirable originally or is more desirable now. Coupes and convertibles are more desirable among collectors today than sedans or station wagons. Higher-end models tend to be more collectible than lower end. Etc.

With an original production for your car of 5,349, you might expect there to be 50 of them somewhere in the world. Give or take. Maybe 100? Probably not much more than that. Maybe less as the F-85 line isn't as popular as the Cutlass line, especially with 6-cylinder engines, so there aren't very many people pulling them out of junkyards or farmer's fields and getting them back on the road.


Your car does look good. Thanks for posting the photos.

wmachine

Please post a pic of your firewall data plate. So far we can tell that it is not one of the elusive "option-less" cars as it has a radio. The SSIs would not be original as they were not available on the 6 cyl Club Coupe. And it is a model 33307 F85 Club Coup 6.

We can do better than that statistically. The only transmission option for that model (and the whole 3300 series which included the 4-door and station wagon models) was the fixed stator Jetaway auto.
Having firm figures through June, 29.4% of the 3300 series came with the 3-on-the-tree. If one extends this % to just the Club Coupes, that makes approx 1573.
A small number, but not extremely rare.

joe_padavano

Yes, the car is relatively rare because it was one of the bottom-line loss leader Oldsmobiles for 1967. As equipped it was unpopular when new and thus few were sold. Also, be aware that just because your rear axle has twelve bolts holding the cover doesn't make it a "12-bolt" axle. You have a Type O axle that actually uses an 8.5" ring gear held to the carrier by ten bolts. The usual Chevy 12-bolt axle uses an 8.875" ring gear held with twelve bolts.

Mucle NUTZ

OK then... After all the info from you guys this is my feeling... I have a rare car because it was undesirable, thus less production, thus less people wanting to save them from the scrap heap... does that about do it? I feel like I found a jem of a car. A GRANNY car if you will. Please help me with the data plate info as follows:

05D B
ST 67-33407 FRA 2582 BOD
TR 903.A D-D PAINT

Thanks
Rob

Mucle NUTZ

Please check my data plate.
Thanks
Rob

Mucle NUTZ

Well gentlemen... This is the situation for my build... I'm obviously keeping the drive line for originality(out of the car in the garage) and transplanting a 1966 442 drive line with a real 12 bolt w/sway bar. My motor is the 66 442 400 block standard bore with B heads. I have a set of C heads also. I'd like to use as much of the original motor as possible less the pistons. On that note is it a good idea to use the W30 pistons for this build because they are original flat top pistons @ 4.057 meaning I need to bore out my 4.00 block .057? I saw this info on the 442 web site as any Olds pistons for .030 over jobs are hard to come by. Any thoughts or suggestions in all areas of my motor build would be great. Keep in mind I'm not looking to run down the track. I'm doing this for street rod and to keep the presence of the Oldsmobile alive on the street and at shows. The trans is a muncie M20 matching to the motor. The rear I have not come across yet and funds aren't the best right now so I'm trying to stay in a budget. I want to keep the look of the car factory. I might try to bring this down to a no option look if I can. There's nothing like a bare bones muscle car. I'm keeping the factory interior and mounting the 4 speed straight to the floor in front of the split bench seat. Well that's my start... Any comments bring them on.. I love to hear all your thoughts.
Thanks
Rob

gearheads78

You are doing pretty much exacty what I would do to it. Keep us informed of the progress.

Mucle NUTZ

I'm confused... I went to decode my data plate at Oldsmobility.com and it's saying it should be a V8, not a L6. Judging by the car it looks original. Who in their right mind would do such a conversion???? Everything else is as it should be...

Oldsmaniac

I just put together a 67 400. All 400 stock pistons were flat tops to my knowledge. EGGE machine has them in stock cast just like the originals. Better to use those than taking a lot of metal off for 350 pistons in my opinion.

jaunty75

What is your car's VIN?

Mucle NUTZ

333077g140729

Oldsmaniac

2nd anr 3rd numbers are 33 which is a standard L6 engine

Mucle NUTZ

Why does my data plate say 33407

Mucle NUTZ

No sense dwelling on it... Thanks for the help....I'm more concerned about the build. I'll check out emme for the pistons.

wmachine

The total lack of accessories codes (which I've never seen before) indicate the lack of options on this car. Being a Framingham built car, you have a fair chance of finding the build sheet on top of the gas tank.
You have a deluxe steering wheel, but it looks like the radio may have been added. That car may be the most basic '67 Olds A-body in existence.
I would be extremely interested in seeing the build sheet if you can find it.

Mucle NUTZ

I'll pull the tank this weekend. Sorry on the EGGE mistake.. My bad. I think you're rightvon the radio being added. I will post build sheet if found.

Mucle NUTZ

I think my car is from Framingham,MA.
(G)

wmachine

You're quite right. Another case of thinking one thing and writing another! I did mean Framingham.

TK-65

No option 65 F85.

wmachine

Not exactly. That only indicates a '65 that has no options that show up with Accessory Codes
There are numerous other options that don't show up there.

Mucle NUTZ

The only difference is the A after 903.
Does that mean anything
Rob

wmachine

Yes, the A means a conventional bench seat. I believe the reason there is no seat code on the tag Jasen posted (typical on '65 F85 models) is that the were no option on the F85 seats, they were all the conventional bench seats.

Mucle NUTZ

Hey Guys I uploaded engine shots and the Cowl Tag. Take a look at tell me what you see. As you can see it's manual steering and brakes.

oldsguybry

oh BTW ..... Nice Car !!

Oldsmaniac

Engine bay looks original to me.... I dont know what to say about trim tag.... vin says f85 6cyl but trim tag says an 8 from what I can tell but I am not a numbers guy. So with that being said I would say maybe the factory screwed up the trim tag with a 4 and not a 3 if that is at all possible... Was this the car that was for sale recently on NJ craigslist? I admired it then but having that 6 in there was kinda weird for me. Ya may want to check out my build thread for the 67 442 trac pac...lots of pictures there and drama!

67442HT

I am a little sad that you aren't leaving the 6 cylinder in it. There are so many muscle cars and hot rods at car shows, and I think that this car would be such an attraction in it's original state. I would love to have this car and keep it just the way the factory built it.

Hairy Olds

I also would be more interested in seeing the car left as it is. The oddball cars are so much more interesting then the run of the mill v8 four speed or auto cars. I own a 67 442 and I think this is much cooler in the configuration it's in. The only way it could better if it was a radio delete car.

66postcar

I have the same issue with mine it is also a post car vin 33307 but data tag 33407, is this s common mishap?

slantflat

The Fisher Body number, while looking similar to the VIN number, doesn't mean anything, except to Fisher. 33407 is some sort of production number for their side of the factory, not any sort of code for what the car became.

Also, the option codes only show up on the data plate when it requires a body modification. Such as air conditioning or the holes punched in the doors for power windows' harness. A deluxe steering wheel in place of the standard one probably wouldn't be there, but the deluxe steering wheel would be an option nonetheless.

That 6 is actually a Chevy 250, isn't it? And they were worried in the 70s about using Chevy motors in an Olds.

joe_padavano

The only difference between a 33307 and 33407 is the engine - the 333... series were six cylinder cars and 334... series were eight cylinder cars. As far as Fisher Body was concerned the bodies were identical so Fisher used the 334... designation for both, since all they cared about was the body, not the drivetrain or chassis.

edzolz

My son has the same car with optional two speed auto trans. It has trim for a vinyl top but no vinyl. Rubber floor mat, plain steering wheel, AM radio, no air, Hubcaps have been changed so we don't know what it came with. Plain interior with out rear armrests.

Octania

I'd rate it "extremely rare" and getting more so by the day, as the population of such things dwindles.... like when folks put a 400 and "real 12-bolt" [=Chevy part?] in them.

I have seen 2 or maybe 3 straight 6 A-bodies, outside of car shows, ever. 2 or three V6 cars circa 1965 or so.... and MAYBE Three 3OTT [3 on the tree] cars- a '64 I parted out, one of the V6 cars near Lansing, and my '71-2 350-2bbl [no six available that year] F-85 4dr.

The Chevy 6 can be hopped up, many such parts exist. You can also put a long stroke truck 292 engine in it. That with a tall rear end ration would be a great Turnpike Cruiser.

"As equipped it was unpopular when new and thus few were sold."
=================
Agreed- why not spend just a bit more and get a V8 Cutlass, back then?


Also, be aware that just because your rear axle has twelve bolts holding the cover doesn't make it a "12-bolt" axle.
===========
I disagree. That is, in the Oldsmobile realm, a 12-bolt. By definition.


You have a Type O axle that actually uses an 8.5" ring gear held to the carrier by ten bolts. The usual Chevy 12-bolt axle uses an 8.875" ring gear held with twelve bolts.
==============
Immaterial. The extra 0.375" diameter [4.4% LARGER] makes a huge difference? Pshaw. Even if you go with strength = square of diameter, it's a 9% difference.
Of all the things I have ever seen, a broken rear end due to all 10 of the ring gear bolts shearing off.... is NOT one of them. "Oh, damn, if ONLY I had the TWELVE bolts that a Chevy part has, it would not have failed!!" Bullshed. If you want to use SOB [Some Other Brand] parts, then just go for the Man's Final Drive: the Ford 9 inch.

joe_padavano

At which point it is no longer stock, so why not just drop in an LS motor and get mileage AND performance?

We've had this same discussion for years (decades?!?!), so you and I should just agree to disagree on the semantics.

My point was not a strength discussion. It was that when you say "12-bolt" to anyone, you will be talking about a Chevy axle with an 8.875" ring gear. My distinction was parts compatibility, not strength. And yes, it IS an R squared function.