smietana

So what is wrong with this?http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...hid=326AD52556

cutlassefi

Nothing really but you're better off buying the Eagle kit imo.

smietana

Is that the one with mahle pistons?

cutlassefi

Yes, and you can always offset grind your original crank.

smietana

That was my plan, have a 455 block with crank and nothing else. starting my parts list. Will be buying parts a few at a time.
Thanks for the answers.

64Rocket

If you use .060 over pistons and a 4.5 stroke , that is 496.
It must be a longer stroke or a bigger bore. If bigger bore, getting pretty thin on the walls. I know Brian trick went 4.200 on his 507, but I'm sure he did a sonic check.
I wonder what the combo is on the year one set up.

Gene

Rickman48

Isn't the Eagle kit less money??

smietana

Hoping to only bore it 0.30, might need a sleeve in one cylinder. There is more in the year one kit.

Run to Rund

If you put together a stroker kit yourself, be aware that cam lobe to connecting rod shoulder or bolt head gets close. The 2.2" BBC rod journals result in more rod shoulder clearance as the rod doesn't have to be so wide.

507OLDS

I didn't click on the link,but I think the Year One kit is Dick Miller's 500" stroker kit. I wouldn't bother.There is better out there for less,or for the same price,a better combination.

cutlassefi

X2 yes I think that DMR's kit.

smietana

Hi Brian,
Could you let me know one or two kits you would use?
Thanks

SBORule

Can you tell me about the Pontiac piston 502ci combo again ?

507OLDS

The 507 was built in 1998,and there wasn't as much of a selection of parts as there is now,but they are off-the-shelf parts.
The pistons are Ross +.060 455 Pontiac.Ross makes these pistons with the BBC .990" pin.The bore size is 4.211",and the pin height is 1.495"
The rods are Eagle H-beam,BBC 6.800"
The crank is a typical 455 N-crank,offset ground to 4.55" stroke,with BBC journals.
When machining the crank for Chevy rods,you can do it one of 3 ways:
1.Take all the material off the Chevy rods,narrow/modify the bearing,and leave the crank as-is for the width.
2.Leave the rods alone,and remove all the material from the crank,to make the journals wide enough for the Chevy rods.
3.Split the work between the crank & rods.Basicly take some off the rods,and some off the crank.
I did #3. The Chevy rods have an offset at the big end,and that amount was machined off the side,to make the centered.Then the remaining amount of needed width was taken off the crank.
The block was decked/squared.I think it went .010" on one side,and .015" on the other,so now each side has the same deck height.The pistons are flat tops with valve reliefs that line up with the Olds valves,and they sit .045" in the hole.

Now we have even more piston & rod selections,so now you can make one with a 7.100" rod.No need to go that big on bore.4.185" bore is all you need.If you use the Pontiac piston,you can get a 4.181" or 4.191".

SBORule

Thanks Brian for taking the time to post all that info.

I remember Bill saying somewhere that he recommends going with the longest stroke and short rods which baffles me with the direction you guys are going with your new engine combo.

I like the looks of that 4.550" stroke, BBC 6.800" rod, Ross + .030" over 4.181" Pontiac piston combo for a 502ci BBO.

If I remember right, that Pontiac piston is for a 428ci Pontiac and not a 455 ?

507OLDS

The pistons that I have in there are 455 Pontiac.The 428's are similar,but something is different.I just don't remember what.I do know that Bill likes to put as much stroke in there as possible,then the shortest piston,then fill in the blank with the rod.With the CP pistons that he puts in a lot of the strokers,the pin height is around 1.070",or something like that,with a ring stack of .043/.043/3mm,to keep the oil ring above the pin.When I redo the 507,I will be ordering a shorter piston like that,and changing to a longer rod.The 517" project that I have at Bill's,has a Velasco billet 4.700" stroke,with a set of CP pistons that have that ring stack,and a pin height of 1.070".He will just fill in the black with the rod,once he has the deck height determined,and he needs to have the piston down at least .010" in the hole.You do not want to zero-deck a set-up with aluminum rods,due to expansion,which could push it up above.You can with steel rods though.

On another note,we have been discussing the gameplan for my smallblock project,and I want to put a bunch of stroke in that as well.He knows 4.00" will fit,even in a gas block,but with the diesel block,and if I keep the 3" main crank,I could possibly go up to 4.25" stroke in a smallblock.I would like to make this naturally aspirated as well,but maybe with the diesel,I'll ease off on the stroke,and put a truckload of boost to it.That's another story for another day.I do know that Tod Richards took a 425 crank,ground the mains down to fit a 350 gas block,and set the stroke at 4.00",and he is running that in his street car.

cutlassefi

Brian- I think the standard Olds stroker pistons have a comp distance of 1.270, the same as a BBC stroker. It makes it easier for the piston companies to be able to use a popular blank.
If you do a 4.25 stroked small block, you'll have a real short piston again.
For the street I'm of the opinion that if you don't need to put the ring pack into the wrist pin then you're better off not to. Jmo
Hopefully it will be announced shortly about some stroker cranks being introduced for the SBO. Procomp ia apparrently working on 2 different ones, but details are a little sketchy right now.

507OLDS

Correct Mark.I do not like to put the pin into the oil ring.I have done a lot with 5.0L Ford engines,and that is the main downer with the cookie-cutter 347 stroker kits that are offered.They could simply make a better piston,with a different ring stack,to move the oil ring above the pin.I call it laziness.The general public is made to believe that it has to be that way,but that is false.I always had to hand-pick those pieces for the 347 assemblies,and have pistons made with a better ring stack.
When it comes to the 517" project,or the smallblock project,they get custom pistons,with all the bells & whistles.I just haven't found a production piston that will fit the package,and I don't want something like a piston to dictate the rest of the assembly,like some parts did 10+ years ago.Yes 4.25" stroke will leave we with a short rod,even with the shortest piston possible,so I thought about leaving it at an even 4.00",or 4.100" at the most.

SBORule

That's what had me wondering, with a 4.700" stroke and a 7.100" rod, I was thinking the pin was going to be in the oil ring.

Some guy in Canada had a 523ci Olds built by CJ Batten back in the early 90s that had a forged 4.750" stroke crank, I think you should add another 0.100" stroke to your crank.

I know all about TR putting a 425 crank in a gas 350 block, funny thing was Smitty @ M&J Blowformance said a 425 wouldn't fit in a gas block on ORO, then I posted an Ad TR posted in the for sale section a few months prior, he was and the very next day after I made him a moderator, he deleted what he posted and the reply I posted but that's another whole story as well.

Thanks for all your replies and sharing your knowledge with us little folk.

64Rocket

If you get the "Eagle" stroker kit. You get "Mahle" pistons, "Eagle" rods, and a "Eagle" crank.
The crank has the bbc rod journal, but has the "Olds" journal width. To use the 7.1 rods, you will need to widen the journals, to fit the rods.

Gene

Vega

Dont be scared of reconditioning stock rods either, that is if the lengths will work for your combo. Theyre very hearty. A lot of people use stock Olds rods in their Caddy 500 builds because theyre so much stronger, and i know of a few people who run stock rods with nitrous. No girdles either. It takes a lot lot lot to break the bottom end of an Olds 455

cutlassefi

I couldn't disagree more. This is one of the few things I agree with BTR on. It's just not worth reusing them, not when you can get something twice as strong for not a lot more money.

Vega

Well let me re-phrase. If you have the extra money and everything else is going to be new anyway, sure, might as well be safe. But if youve got the stock ones already, if theyre in good shape (tested and check out), and if you'd rather keep budget down, i say go ahead. Not saying it wouldnt be safer to go with brand new rods, and there are two distinct sides of the oppinion and neither are wrong, but i like re-using parts when possible. However i will stick up for the durability of stock components. At least on these motors

70vista

Hi, I just picked up my crank,rods and pistons up from BTR for the 496" stroker I am doing for the 70 vista I am doing. I used a stock N crank stroked to 4.5",7.1" cat rods narrowed for the olds journals and CP pistons. I feel it is worth doing a custom set up because you have more control over the clearances and trust Bills opinions and are backed up by lots of experience. This engine the way it will be set up should be around 450 hp and over 600 ft lbs which should move my vista pretty good.

cutlassefi

70vista, if you don't mind me asking, how much for that combo from Bill? I'm sure all would like to know.

Vega - if you staying under 400hp, say 350 or so, the stock rods are fine. But when you use a slug like the L2323 and try to get towards the 400 mark then the extra $200.00 for a set of aftermarket rods is a no brainer imo.

Thanks

Vega

Agreed

507OLDS

SBOrule,
I think that 523" Olds was in a 60's Firebird,if it is the same car that I am thinking of.
My Velasco crank was also made with small journal 2.00" SBC rod journals.The rods will be GRP custom.My CP pistons were also made with the smaller .927" SBC pin.
When I do the smallblock project,I'll either use the small journal SBC rod journals,or the 1.88" Honda journals.When you start from scratch,you can make it what you want.

70vista

I already had the crank,balancer,flexplate but the crank,pistons,rods,machine work on the rodas and balancing the assembly was at $2400. My engine will produce a little more compression 10.25 than the Y0 kit.

507OLDS

Sounds about right Steve.

SBORule

Yup, that's the 1

I hear that.

Thanks again for your replies.