VIN Tag Replacement
August 1st, 2011, 05:25 AM
#1
Collector of Stray 55's
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 1,014
VIN Tag Replacement
One of my '55's is missing the VIN tag on the door jamb - was removed for repainting and apparently lost.
I have all the supporting documentation (cowl tag, original owners manual with VIN, dealer paperwork, etc...) and would like to replace the VIN tag (stamped aluminum? - and attached with solder or some crazy little spot welds).
Anyone know who can replicate these?
Thanks in advance.
I have all the supporting documentation (cowl tag, original owners manual with VIN, dealer paperwork, etc...) and would like to replace the VIN tag (stamped aluminum? - and attached with solder or some crazy little spot welds).
Anyone know who can replicate these?
Thanks in advance.
August 1st, 2011, 05:59 AM
#2
Replaceing the trim tag is one thing. Replacing the VIN tag is totally different and in most cases and locations VERY illegal. Talk with these companies. Some will do them.
http://www.trimtags.com/
http://www.galengovier.com/fendertag.htm
http://www.datatags.com/
http://www.trimtags.com/
http://www.galengovier.com/fendertag.htm
http://www.datatags.com/
Last edited by 66ninetyeightls; August 1st, 2011 at 06:02 AM.
August 1st, 2011, 10:42 AM
#4
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Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,665
I'd be very surprised if anyone would make a new VIN plate especially since the original one is missing. If you had the original and it was damaged....maybe. But when they are MIA, I seriously doubt anyone will touch that request. You may need to speak to you state's motor vehicle administration as they may be able to issue to a new VIN number for the car but it won't match what you had before. And in doing so, you'll need to get a new title and change the registration so this new VIN number appears on those documents. If you contact your MVA, I would be a little cautious and not give your name or old VIN number just in case they tell you they can't do anything. That way you don't need to worry that you'll either have someone at your house looking at your car or have an issue when the registration renews.
August 1st, 2011, 12:01 PM
#7
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,026
I'd be very surprised if anyone would make a new VIN plate especially since the original one is missing. If you had the original and it was damaged....maybe. But when they are MIA, I seriously doubt anyone will touch that request. You may need to speak to you state's motor vehicle administration as they may be able to issue to a new VIN number for the car but it won't match what you had before. And in doing so, you'll need to get a new title and change the registration so this new VIN number appears on those documents. If you contact your MVA, I would be a little cautious and not give your name or old VIN number just in case they tell you they can't do anything. That way you don't need to worry that you'll either have someone at your house looking at your car or have an issue when the registration renews.
What happens is the state police will come out, inspect the car, verify you own it, and issue a replacement VIN tag that goes where the old one was. It will look nothing like the original.
August 1st, 2011, 12:14 PM
#8
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Location: Northeast Connecticut
Posts: 780
Only if you have proof positive of the old VIN, and a statement on official letterhead from a governmental agency in your state, such as the State Police auto theft unit, or the DMV. Not an easy process, and quite costly if he will make one for you. I have seen the "replacements", and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between an original and the replacement. Replacements are made from highly polished hard aluminum blanks, and the originals are made of stainless steel.
August 1st, 2011, 12:14 PM
#9
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Location: Maryland
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That's what I was referring to. The new tag will have a "number" or a combination of letters and numbers and hence my explanation of a new VIN number. I guess I should have just said a new VIN since adding the word "number" is redundant. And you are correct, it will have a different look to it.
August 1st, 2011, 12:20 PM
#10
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Location: Northeast Connecticut
Posts: 780
These are known as "state issued replacement vehicle identification numbers". I had a problem with a car when I moved from one state to another. The car was registered in one state, and then moved to another state far away. I noticed the VIN missing one day, and contacted the state that I was living in. They said to take the car back to the state where it was last registered for the replacement, since that was where the title came from. When I called that state, they said that since I was no longer a resident of the state, to contact the DMV at the state where the car and I presently resided in. Neither state wanted to offer me any assistance to resolve this problem.
August 1st, 2011, 12:22 PM
#11
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,026
Only if you have proof positive of the old VIN, and a statement on official letterhead from a governmental agency in your state, such as the State Police auto theft unit, or the DMV. Not an easy process, and quite costly if he will make one for you. I have seen the "replacements", and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between an original and the replacement. Replacements are made from highly polished hard aluminum blanks, and the originals are made of stainless steel.
August 1st, 2011, 12:30 PM
#12
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,665
These are known as "state issued replacement vehicle identification numbers". I had a problem with a car when I moved from one state to another. The car was registered in one state, and then moved to another state far away. I noticed the VIN missing one day, and contacted the state that I was living in. They said to take the car back to the state where it was last registered for the replacement, since that was where the title came from. When I called that state, they said that since I was no longer a resident of the state, to contact the DMV at the state where the car and I presently resided in. Neither state wanted to offer me any assistance to resolve this problem.
August 1st, 2011, 02:55 PM
#13
1956 holiday coupe
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hialeah, Fl
Posts: 528
Most cars have a second vin on the frame this goes back to the forties so I know a 55 will have one just don't know in what location. If you find that I don't see why they would have a problem reissuing a vin. Also the not so legal way (but easy way) would be to go to a trophy shop and have them duplicate one coping one of your other 55 vins with the numbers of said 55.
August 1st, 2011, 05:55 PM
#15
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 69
Check with your state r/e registration documentation. Here in Texas the engine number stamped on the block was used for car ID through 1955. For '56 and later the VIN number was used. Your VIN loss may not be a problem.
August 1st, 2011, 06:25 PM
#16
Collector of Stray 55's
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 1,014
guys at datatags will do it - I just need to show them the appropriate documentation - I thought of the frame route but have no idea where it is on the frame...
thanks all for your respective input
thanks all for your respective input
August 1st, 2011, 08:08 PM
#17
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Northeast Connecticut
Posts: 780
Jumped through the hoops, had original title, and matching registration, did a lot of wrenching to get a picture of the hidden VIN, and then got the aluminum replacement. This was more than 10 years ago, so my memory on cost was either $100 or $150. Don't know if the fellow that did mine has gotten any easier in his requirements, but back then, the only way that he would do it, was if there was no question about the number or the ownership.
August 2nd, 2011, 08:14 AM
#19
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Location: Northeast Connecticut
Posts: 780
On a 1962 Chevrolet, it is on the top of the left frame rail mid point of the front door opening.
On a 1978 Cadillac, it is located on the rear frame member behind the rear wheel on the right hand side, at the top of the frame.
On a 1960 - 64 Chevrolet Corvair, it is located on the side of the front left frame rail, behind the front cross member, necessitating the complete removal of the front suspension.
On a 1967 Chevrolet Camaro, it is located just to the right of the center point below the cowl screen.
I could go on with other descriptions, but you should have the idea now, that it is hidden from view, and very difficult to access. Law enforcement has all this information, and when a particular car needs to be examined for the "hidden" number, they call the NATB (National Auto Theft Bureau) and get the specific information. NATB also issues a yearly book to Law Enforcement Organizations (LEO) that give the details of how to decipher the VIN, for a quick check of the visual VIN of modern cars. The car manufacturers have been using hidden VIN's for over 70 years that I know of. Ford used to stamp the top of the frame rail with the same number that was stamped on the engine block. Originally, the auto makers used the engine number for the VIN, but realized that there was a need for a more permanent number, since engines were routinely swapped when the original one wore out. That is when they started using VIN plates attached to the body. A 1955 Chevrolet has the VIN plate welded to the back side of the left windshield pillar, and a 1955 Cadillac has a plastic plate screwed to the drivers side door hinge pillar. As you can see, there was no consistency as to where they were placed or what was used back then. In 1967 (based on my memory), it was standardized to be on the drivers side of the dash, and visible through the windshield. I don't remember exactly when it was moved to the dash itself, but I would guess around 1970 or 1971.
The picture below shows a 1927 Buick VIN. As you can see, it looks a lot like what was used through the 1960's.
On a 1978 Cadillac, it is located on the rear frame member behind the rear wheel on the right hand side, at the top of the frame.
On a 1960 - 64 Chevrolet Corvair, it is located on the side of the front left frame rail, behind the front cross member, necessitating the complete removal of the front suspension.
On a 1967 Chevrolet Camaro, it is located just to the right of the center point below the cowl screen.
I could go on with other descriptions, but you should have the idea now, that it is hidden from view, and very difficult to access. Law enforcement has all this information, and when a particular car needs to be examined for the "hidden" number, they call the NATB (National Auto Theft Bureau) and get the specific information. NATB also issues a yearly book to Law Enforcement Organizations (LEO) that give the details of how to decipher the VIN, for a quick check of the visual VIN of modern cars. The car manufacturers have been using hidden VIN's for over 70 years that I know of. Ford used to stamp the top of the frame rail with the same number that was stamped on the engine block. Originally, the auto makers used the engine number for the VIN, but realized that there was a need for a more permanent number, since engines were routinely swapped when the original one wore out. That is when they started using VIN plates attached to the body. A 1955 Chevrolet has the VIN plate welded to the back side of the left windshield pillar, and a 1955 Cadillac has a plastic plate screwed to the drivers side door hinge pillar. As you can see, there was no consistency as to where they were placed or what was used back then. In 1967 (based on my memory), it was standardized to be on the drivers side of the dash, and visible through the windshield. I don't remember exactly when it was moved to the dash itself, but I would guess around 1970 or 1971.
The picture below shows a 1927 Buick VIN. As you can see, it looks a lot like what was used through the 1960's.
August 2nd, 2011, 11:10 AM
#21
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 262
On a 1962 Chevrolet, it is on the top of the left frame rail mid point of the front door opening.
On a 1978 Cadillac, it is located on the rear frame member behind the rear wheel on the right hand side, at the top of the frame.
On a 1960 - 64 Chevrolet Corvair, it is located on the side of the front left frame rail, behind the front cross member, necessitating the complete removal of the front suspension.
On a 1967 Chevrolet Camaro, it is located just to the right of the center point below the cowl screen.
I could go on with other descriptions, but you should have the idea now, that it is hidden from view, and very difficult to access. Law enforcement has all this information, and when a particular car needs to be examined for the "hidden" number, they call the NATB (National Auto Theft Bureau) and get the specific information. NATB also issues a yearly book to Law Enforcement Organizations (LEO) that give the details of how to decipher the VIN, for a quick check of the visual VIN of modern cars. The car manufacturers have been using hidden VIN's for over 70 years that I know of. Ford used to stamp the top of the frame rail with the same number that was stamped on the engine block. Originally, the auto makers used the engine number for the VIN, but realized that there was a need for a more permanent number, since engines were routinely swapped when the original one wore out. That is when they started using VIN plates attached to the body. A 1955 Chevrolet has the VIN plate welded to the back side of the left windshield pillar, and a 1955 Cadillac has a plastic plate screwed to the drivers side door hinge pillar. As you can see, there was no consistency as to where they were placed or what was used back then. In 1967 (based on my memory), it was standardized to be on the drivers side of the dash, and visible through the windshield. I don't remember exactly when it was moved to the dash itself, but I would guess around 1970 or 1971.
The picture below shows a 1927 Buick VIN. As you can see, it looks a lot like what was used through the 1960's.
On a 1978 Cadillac, it is located on the rear frame member behind the rear wheel on the right hand side, at the top of the frame.
On a 1960 - 64 Chevrolet Corvair, it is located on the side of the front left frame rail, behind the front cross member, necessitating the complete removal of the front suspension.
On a 1967 Chevrolet Camaro, it is located just to the right of the center point below the cowl screen.
I could go on with other descriptions, but you should have the idea now, that it is hidden from view, and very difficult to access. Law enforcement has all this information, and when a particular car needs to be examined for the "hidden" number, they call the NATB (National Auto Theft Bureau) and get the specific information. NATB also issues a yearly book to Law Enforcement Organizations (LEO) that give the details of how to decipher the VIN, for a quick check of the visual VIN of modern cars. The car manufacturers have been using hidden VIN's for over 70 years that I know of. Ford used to stamp the top of the frame rail with the same number that was stamped on the engine block. Originally, the auto makers used the engine number for the VIN, but realized that there was a need for a more permanent number, since engines were routinely swapped when the original one wore out. That is when they started using VIN plates attached to the body. A 1955 Chevrolet has the VIN plate welded to the back side of the left windshield pillar, and a 1955 Cadillac has a plastic plate screwed to the drivers side door hinge pillar. As you can see, there was no consistency as to where they were placed or what was used back then. In 1967 (based on my memory), it was standardized to be on the drivers side of the dash, and visible through the windshield. I don't remember exactly when it was moved to the dash itself, but I would guess around 1970 or 1971.
The picture below shows a 1927 Buick VIN. As you can see, it looks a lot like what was used through the 1960's.
August 2nd, 2011, 02:01 PM
#23
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Northeast Connecticut
Posts: 780
Please post a picture of it when you locate it....
August 2nd, 2011, 04:02 PM
#24
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Location: Maryland
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I am old, and have a fair amount of knowledge, but I don't remember everything that I have looked at in the last 70 years. To answer your question, yes I do know. The "hidden" VIN on a 1955 full size Oldmobile is located on the right (passanger) side, top of the frame rail 12" to the rear of the crossmember, on the downhill slope.
Please post a picture of it when you locate it....
Please post a picture of it when you locate it....
August 2nd, 2011, 08:21 PM
#26
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Northeast Connecticut
Posts: 780
Wow, that's impressive that you know where a lot of these hidden serial numbers are located. I assume by your screen name that you must have been in the auto salvage business? You mention you have looked at things over the last 70 years so I'll have to assume you are older than 70? I just hope when I get old I can still remember my name and where I live.
August 3rd, 2011, 09:47 AM
#27
Collector of Stray 55's
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 1,014
I'll bite: Two questions though -
1 - When you say "12 inches to the rear of the crossmember" - what do you mean? It's an "X" I believe - so are we talking at the front or at the rear of the "X" - unless you're referring to the crossmember at the top of the axle loop (where the shocks are attached) - which I infer from the "on the downhill slope" part...?
2 - Are you suggesting a photo because you know that it can't be seen with the body on the car - this was my understanding - or do you think you could see it with a mirror?
I seriously would like to pursue this so clarification would be great.
Thanks
1 - When you say "12 inches to the rear of the crossmember" - what do you mean? It's an "X" I believe - so are we talking at the front or at the rear of the "X" - unless you're referring to the crossmember at the top of the axle loop (where the shocks are attached) - which I infer from the "on the downhill slope" part...?
2 - Are you suggesting a photo because you know that it can't be seen with the body on the car - this was my understanding - or do you think you could see it with a mirror?
I seriously would like to pursue this so clarification would be great.
Thanks
I am old, and have a fair amount of knowledge, but I don't remember everything that I have looked at in the last 70 years. To answer your question, yes I do know. The "hidden" VIN on a 1955 full size Oldmobile is located on the right (passanger) side, top of the frame rail 12" to the rear of the crossmember, on the downhill slope.
Please post a picture of it when you locate it....
Please post a picture of it when you locate it....
August 3rd, 2011, 03:42 PM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Northeast Connecticut
Posts: 780
I'll bite: Two questions though -
1 - When you say "12 inches to the rear of the crossmember" - what do you mean? It's an "X" I believe - so are we talking at the front or at the rear of the "X" - unless you're referring to the crossmember at the top of the axle loop (where the shocks are attached) - which I infer from the "on the downhill slope" part...?
the cross memeber at teh top of the axle loop..
2 - Are you suggesting a photo because you know that it can't be seen with the body on the car - this was my understanding - or do you think you could see it with a mirror?
If you can get in there with a mirror and a high intensity light, you might be able to see it, if you clean the area first. If this car is headed to the junk yard, then just cut out the sheet metal above the area and you should see it. Sometimes rust will obliterate the number, so cleaning will be required. Just don't attack this witha wire brush, but use a soft painters brush and diswashing liquid and water. Once it is throughly cleaned, if you spray the number with WD40, and gently wipe it, it should become ledgeable. If you still have difficulty reading it, then use a digital camera, and the picture will bring up the number when you view it on the monitor.
I seriously would like to pursue this so clarification would be great.
Thanks
1 - When you say "12 inches to the rear of the crossmember" - what do you mean? It's an "X" I believe - so are we talking at the front or at the rear of the "X" - unless you're referring to the crossmember at the top of the axle loop (where the shocks are attached) - which I infer from the "on the downhill slope" part...?
the cross memeber at teh top of the axle loop..
2 - Are you suggesting a photo because you know that it can't be seen with the body on the car - this was my understanding - or do you think you could see it with a mirror?
If you can get in there with a mirror and a high intensity light, you might be able to see it, if you clean the area first. If this car is headed to the junk yard, then just cut out the sheet metal above the area and you should see it. Sometimes rust will obliterate the number, so cleaning will be required. Just don't attack this witha wire brush, but use a soft painters brush and diswashing liquid and water. Once it is throughly cleaned, if you spray the number with WD40, and gently wipe it, it should become ledgeable. If you still have difficulty reading it, then use a digital camera, and the picture will bring up the number when you view it on the monitor.
I seriously would like to pursue this so clarification would be great.
Thanks
Last edited by Junkman; August 3rd, 2011 at 03:44 PM.
August 5th, 2011, 05:34 AM
#29
Collector of Stray 55's
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 1,014
Well I found it! Well, what's left of it - this is my parts car which nature already removed most of the trunk pan for me anyway, so I just kept digging. Very hard to see, but you can see the "2 8 3" which was the end of the VIN for this car (ended in L15283). So there you have it - most is dissolved into iron's oxide but exactly where Junkman said it would be.
Thanks Junkman!
Thanks Junkman!
August 6th, 2011, 08:53 AM
#30
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Northeast Connecticut
Posts: 780
You only think that the some of the numbers are gone. If this were a high value vehicle, and identification was absolutely important, then the numbers would have been restored using the acid method. When a serial number is stamped into the metal, the metal molecules are compressed under the stamping. When the acid is applied to the area where the number were, it will remove the uncompressed molecules faster than the compressed molecules, resulting with the number reappearing.
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